Conscious Consumption Part 2: The Physical and Spiritual Effects of Modern Farming with Alan Rosenberg

Alan Episode Part 2 of 2
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION TO PART 2
[00:00:00] Sadaf: In part two of our special series with Alan Rosenberg, we dive even deeper into the transformative power of regenerative and biodynamic farming. Alan shares insights on the practical and philosophical challenges of adopting sustainable farming methods and how community supported agriculture can reshape our food system.
[00:00:21] Sadaf: If you missed part one, be sure to catch it as we continue this eye opening journey with Alan. to discover how conscious farming practices can reshape our lives and our planet.
[00:00:35] Sadaf: Welcome to Alt Life, where we break free from the chains of conventional thinking and explore the limitless possibilities of a redefined reality.
[00:00:48] THE TRUE COST OF CONVENIENCE OF OUR HEALTH
[00:00:48] Sadaf: I know that we're probably not talking to a lot of farmers here, we don't have a lot of farmers listening in, but just out of curiosity, Is that then, I mean, in some ways it's harder for a farmer to [00:01:00] switch to, uh, a more regenerative form of agriculture because now you have, you have multi system farms and it's maybe much easier to just grow carrots or just grow, uh, corn on the one hand.
[00:01:10] Sadaf: But on the other hand, it's also a bit harder because it's also maybe more expensive because now you have to buy more pesticides, more herbicides, fungicides, and you have to keep buying from these corporations that are supplying you even the seed, I guess. What do you think in the long run? Is it like easier for someone to go like conventional farming route or like regenerative farming?
[00:01:32] Sadaf: It sounds harder in some ways to me.
[00:01:36] Alan: No, it's the opposite actually. You see why it's hard, why it's difficult is because from a, from a Plato's cave point of view, farmer who's growing conventionally, struggles to find support, information, the scientific evidence from an organic seventh generation approach.
[00:01:59] Alan: [00:02:00] Why? Because the system doesn't deal with that. So he goes to a university and says, I've got this particular insect, what do I do? And they, because they've been trained in the cave, now you apply chemical A, B, C or D. And then the system maintains itself. If you go to a biodynamic farmer or an organic farmer who's been practicing on that soil for at least seven years, they don't have the same incidence of insect's pest and disease.
[00:02:32] Alan: They don't need to go and find insecticides. They make it for themselves. So you're new to the fact that it's more expensive. It's actually cheaper because your average, ordinary conventional farmer is buying his seed. He's buying his fertilizer, he's buying his herbicide, he's buying his, uh, pesticide, he's buying his fungicide, he's buying his nematicide.
[00:02:55] Alan: All those are expenses that the organic farmer doesn't have. [00:03:00] He's growing and doing all of those things for himself. What
[00:03:05] Sadaf: about the difference in yield, Alan? So is there like a significant difference in yield between conventional and organic farming?
[00:03:14] Alan: I'm tempted to say there is a slight differentiation, uh, uh, with the positive on the side of the conventional.
[00:03:24] Alan: You know, early in my biography, I worked with the Swaziland government and, uh, our yields were higher than the conventional. Ours from an organic point of view. So essentially, you know When we look to the creative principle, it gave us an environment, planet Earth, in which we could grow all the nourishment we needed to the point where we can feed ourselves.
[00:03:52] Alan: That's possible from an organic, regenerative, biodynamic, holistic resource management [00:04:00] permaculture, or from all of those sides, it is possible, but it's a process. And in that conversion process, we subject to, in a sense, hardship, while you're busy developing fertility, it's going to cost you money, it's going to cost you time, it's going to cost you resources.
[00:04:17] Sadaf: Yeah, I guess, I mean, I mean, that, you know, that to me makes, uh, makes some sense because now in some ways we've destroyed fertility. a lot of the microbes in the soil and we've kind of destroyed that. So it will take some time for us to regenerate that. But then on the flip side, I'm thinking from a farmer's perspective, it's much easier because now I'm not dependent on the corporations.
[00:04:38] Sadaf: I don't need to buy the seed from X, Y, Z company, and I don't need to buy their pesticide because Guess what? Their seed works with their pesticides, and I'm not beholden to them, uh, anymore. And perhaps in the long run, and overall, if you look at, like, net, uh, net gain, it may be more effort and a little bit more to, you know, it's kind of like a shift in perspective, like [00:05:00] you said.
[00:05:00] Sadaf: But in the long run, it might even be more beneficial to a farmer that trying to, yeah, grow and sell crops. I suppose, like, one of the other challenges, as I'm speaking to you, I'm thinking, one of the other challenges one might find in switching from conventional method to a organic method is that I think that the supply chains are not set up.
[00:05:20] Sadaf: So even now, when I buy from the Biodynamic Association, You know, you get things in bits and bobs, and that's not, like you said, it's the system, you know, so the whole system is set up like that, whereas if I have, like, maybe just a corn field or a field of wheat, then I have a customer or a set number of customers that are going to buy that from me every time, and then they kind of guarantee that on the shelf.
[00:05:44] Sadaf: of the supermarkets, however that process goes. It's a little bit like if you go towards the more regenerative or organic, it's a little bit more like how we kind of expect and what makes sense to us. You know, like sometimes there's going to be broccoli, sometimes there's not, and that's seasonal and that's okay.
[00:05:59] Sadaf: [00:06:00] And sometimes this farmer is going to offer me something and sometimes they won't. And, you know, perhaps like it also makes me think that It's not the way that we are used to living because I expect to find blueberries on the shelf all times of the year. So I'm not used to it and it might be a shift, but actually in many ways it might be better for my, uh, for my, for my health.
[00:06:22] Sadaf: Because we know that the more diverse foods we eat, it uh, grows. That's actually what's feeding our microbiome, like our gut and our microbiome in our body is, is the diversity of food. So if perhaps if we start eating like that, it might even, you know, fit in there. Yeah.
[00:06:40] CHOOSING FREEDOM: BREAKING AWAY FROM FOOD CORPORATIONS

[00:06:40] Alan: So for, from the organic, uh, point of view.
[00:06:43] Alan: We are, in terms of our mission and our vision, we're trying to change the food system, and we've acknowledged that we need to do that in collaboration. So we're trying to find players in the [00:07:00] biodynamic sector, in the region sector, holistic resource management sector, permaculture sector, and we're inviting them as a collective to then bring the best of the best.
[00:07:12] Alan: In order to change the system, because like you alluded to, it's not just the farmer, it's the whole value chain, in which the consumers represented, he and she have a fundamental right to know the system. Where and how was their food grown? So they need to participate. We have demonstrated that there's a concept called Participative Guarantee System, that that PGS system would become, will become part of our future expression as an evolving species.
[00:07:52] Alan: So there's another concept also developed in the organic sector called Community Supported Agriculture. We, [00:08:00] we as a group,
[00:08:01] Sadaf: I just want to stop you there. Sorry. So, so what is like, can you just explain what does this mean at PGS? What does this mean? Participatory Guarantee System? What does this mean?
[00:08:12] Alan: So it, it, it was a way for us to create a model that would function in a futuristic society, that free expression of your spiritual life, your political, not party, your ability to choose that realm.
[00:08:30] Alan: And then the economic sphere. So how the PGS system works is that a group of practitioners, farmers, growers, even backyard farmers, they decide, not they decide, they acknowledge that they live in a community. Let me find people who are working in a similar sympathetic manner. And let me form an association with them.
[00:08:56] Alan: A regional one, a local one. And then we [00:09:00] form, we, this collective. Form a relationship with civil society who lives in our area and we invite them to participate in this acknowledgement that we're all involved in the food that we eat. So I can come to you as a PGS player and say, you know, I love blueberries.
[00:09:21] Alan: Is there anybody growing blueberries in your group? You take that message back to your collective and say, there's a guy out there who wants blueberries. Anybody growing them? And so we start this interdependence on each other, codependence on each other. So one of the things that the consumer rightfully wants to know, how was my food grown?
[00:09:48] Alan: And there's a three tiered system that's around for an acknowledgement. I, as a practitioner, can invite my consumers, uh, to an open [00:10:00] day, and I expose everything. This is who I am. This is how I grow my food, and I certify it as being organic. First party certification. Second party certification is that we, as this, uh, PGS group, go from farm to farm to farm, uh, with the input suppliers.
[00:10:21] Alan: The whole value chain is represented there. And according to an assessment form, we determine if that, uh, Practitioner can be considered as eligible for a seal that acknowledges the food was grown organically. Second party certification. Third party certification is that I, as a practitioner, I invite an outside entity, a certified, uh, or an accredited certification body.
[00:10:51] Alan: To come to my farm, they, according to their assessment, will determine yes, I warrant or don't warrant being certified as organic. [00:11:00] Those are the three options we have in this day and age, and I think the PGS system is gaining foothold globally. Even Mama government has acknowledged, uh, and is participating with us, uh, to see how can they best advocate for a PGS approach going into the future.
[00:11:21] Alan: Demeter, from the biodynamic point of view, they've got a PGS approach. The Organic Association of South Africa, they've got a PGS approach.
[00:11:32] PROBIOTICS: FINDING LIFE IN DIVERSITY

[00:11:32] Sadaf: I actually want to go back to one of the things we talked about, about microorganisms. And I want, I want you to chat a bit about, you work with effective microorganisms.
[00:11:45] Sadaf: What is, what are effective microorganisms? And at a previous, uh, in a previous conversation, you mentioned that this is the best form of probiotic available on the market today. What [00:12:00] is it? I know it was not created or initially intended for human use, but what is it and why is this better than, like, just compare and contrast it to, like, the commercial probiotics we get?
[00:12:12] Alan: I want to start off with a phrase that I've learned to share with. The students who are usually in with this knowledge exchange. You don't have to be a mechanic to drive. If you understand the mechanics, it can be a positive contribution to actually how you drive, how you treat your car. I need to also share with the audience that the reference to effective microorganisms is a reference to a product.
[00:12:47] Alan: So microbes are divided into pretty much two groups. Those that are beneficial. And those that are pathogenic, simply pathogenic, uh, [00:13:00] organisms enable, uh, illness. If you get a flu, it's from a pathogenic organism. In Japan, there was a pro, there is a professor, a professor, Professor Tera Higa, who was asked by a corporation, he's a scientist, microbial scientist, microbi, microbiological scientist.
[00:13:19] Alan: He was asked to formulate a microbial product that could be used to address. ill health in a, in a mandarin, mandarin orchard, uh, in Japan. And Prof Heger's been to South Africa and the story that he tells is that he started off doing his analyses and testing as a typical reductionist scientist. What microbe can I find Who's doing what job, which I can then utilize for what effect.
[00:13:56] Alan: He tells the story, at some point he got extremely [00:14:00] frustrated, because he couldn't manage to do not only the breeding of these microorganisms, but the, the direct association between a particular macro and a particular outcome. And he said in his frustration, He took all the petri dishes that he had, put them all in a bucket, and threw it all outside.
[00:14:22] Alan: Two weeks later, when he walked past, he saw there was a positive impact outside. And he describes that he had an aha moment where it came to him, it's not about isolating organisms, it's about collectively pooling them and creating a consortium. And so his whole mode of approach changed. And he came up with this product called effective microorganisms.
[00:14:50] Alan: They're sold in 124 countries on planet earth. Uh, and in there, of five types of microorganisms, [00:15:00] and 80 different species. Lactic acid, actinomycetes, phototrophic bacteria, yeasts, and, uh, fermenting fungi. Those are the types, and there are 80 different strains. And, uh, essentially, every bottle of EM, the EM effective microorganisms that you buy, you can then utilize with molasses to multiply them, and that's it.
[00:15:32] Alan: And then dilute that, what you made, into an environment. And the probiotic that I make is exactly that. I take the mother tincture, those effective microorganisms, the EM, I brew them with molasses, 12 other ingredients, and then I offer that as a probiotic. So it ferments for 2 or 3 months. And from an environmental or agricultural point [00:16:00] of view, it's the same microbes.
[00:16:02] Alan: You know, if you look, where's the origin of those microbes? They came from the creative principle. Professor Heger didn't invent them. They're not his. And they found globally. So those creative principles that enabled the manifestation of the world, they said we need a microbial basis, a foundation that would enable the world to function as an organism.
[00:16:26] Alan: And those were the microorganisms that we have founded in the EM. And they work in pretty much every and any environment. Something we haven't alluded to that's critical for all of us to acknowledge is we have a fundamental responsibility to how we either use, utilize, and relate to water. So we mentioned the four kingdoms of nature, physical, plant, animal, and man.
[00:16:57] Alan: All of those kingdoms are [00:17:00] dependent on a relationship. And those effective microorganisms have a wonderful ability to positively impact on polluted waters. We did a, we did some work here in the Cradle of Humankind, a World Heritage Site, um, where they've got what they've got there. Of course, you're going to need pollutions, there's restaurants, there's waste water.
[00:17:26] Alan: All of that is filtered to a constructed wetland, and in the wetland we're applying the effect of microorganisms. And the water coming out of that system is, yeah, you don't want to say it's drinkable. But it surely is. If I put it in a bottle, nobody's going to tell me that it's not pure, idyllic water.
[00:17:50] Sadaf: Fascinating. And this is, and these effects are seen by these microbes working synergistically, which is, I guess, how they work in nature and in the environment. And it also makes me think [00:18:00] about how We are meant to work synergistically and, uh, and, and, you know, and together, and we all have different functions and we communicate with each other.
[00:18:08] Sadaf: And it's kind of like, I mean, I don't know the way that you'd work in a team. It also makes me think about how a lot of probiotics are sold on the market today. And, um, and often these are different because they, many of them are freeze dried and capsules. So they're technically like, you know, Hibernating, right.
[00:18:28] Sadaf: Uh, which is different to this solution, which is more living, you know, so it's been fermented a bit and it's a bit alive. It's alive, and the microbes are active. And so I think that's very interesting. And I also, I also know that the science, you know, the, the science of the gut and the microbiome and the microbiota, it's still a very, it's still in its infancy.
[00:18:49] Harnessing the Power of Nature’s Transformative Forces

[00:18:49] Sadaf: Like we, we are still discovering so much more. But what is so interesting to me as I think about it, is. How did Rudolf Steiner know this? Like, how did he know all [00:19:00] this stuff? And how did he make these connections to the cosmos, and like the lunar cycles, and the crystals, and the cow horn, you know, because they use, um, you know, so for those listening who don't know, So in one of the practices in biodynamic agriculture, um, and you must correct me, Alan, if I'm wrong, is that they use the cow horn to pack manures.
[00:19:21] Sadaf: You pack manure into the cow horn and then bury it underground. And apparently there's some digestive capabilities of the cow horn that transforms this manure into a very potent fertilizer. And then they use this to spray over the fields, like mix it in water and spray it over the fields. But I guess, and, and, you know, now the way now that now we know what we know about the way decomposition works and the role of microbes and the decomposition process and the transformation process, but how did Rudolf Steiner know this?
[00:19:53] Sadaf: All those years, like a hundred years ago, how did he know this?
[00:19:56] Alan: So there's a fair few responses that I can come up with. [00:20:00] The first one, just go, it's going to take me back to where you ended off, where you kind of positioned yourself, uh, in trying to acknowledge your role in, in, in the world, in the context of all these other 8 billion people.
[00:20:19] Alan: I've come to the notion that we each function as a microbe and collectively we. Or a consortium of microbial activity on planet Earth. The more we collaborate, the more we're going to achieve. But in a little bit more directly in the context of your question, how did Rudolph know all of this? The answer is relatively simple.
[00:20:47] Alan: He was clairvoyant. You know, he wrote a book, one of his most famous book is called Spiritual Science. And he said there is a science to the realm of the spirit. And he, he [00:21:00] articulated that in the book. And if you and I study that book, we would enable ourselves to get to a point of being clairvoyant. For those who are clairvoyant, they're able to access the Akashic Record.
[00:21:15] Alan: And the Akashic record is that realm in the cosmic domain where everything that was, is, and will be, is captured. And Rudolf was able to go there between planet Earth and the record and come back again. And that's how he came up with that information.
[00:21:37] Sadaf: Can you explain what clairvoyant is for people who have never heard the term?
[00:21:43] Alan: Clairvoyant is, uh, is, is an ability to Access the world of the super sensible. So it's outside of our sense of smell, of taste, of hear, of touch, etc. This is a realm that has no senses. Like the life in the [00:22:00] tree. You can't actually see that. You know, I can't access your actual life. While it's functioning in your body, you express your interpretation of that.
[00:22:13] Alan: and a clairvoyant is able to perceive that what's not perceptible to those of us who don't live there.
[00:22:21] Sadaf: Yeah, I definitely, I believe that, you know, I mean, how, how did he, how did he know all this? I have a question for you actually. So you studied biodynamic agriculture in the eighties.
[00:22:32] Alan: Yes, ma'am.
[00:22:34] Sadaf: In the early eighties.
[00:22:35] Sadaf: And, and that was, I think like, From what I understand, it was actually before I was born, but from what I understand of the time is that it was a time when everybody was very gung ho about, you know, modern techniques. And it's like, you know, everybody was like, oh, you know, like modern farming saved us. And if it wasn't for modern farming, we might be experiencing a famine.
[00:22:54] Sadaf: And everyone was generally like very pro technology and pro [00:23:00] corporations as well. What led you to this? Just what led you to take this approach that was quite off unconventional.
[00:23:11] Alan: So I was unconventional as a youth. I couldn't find my place. I was aimless. And I went away on holiday with a friend. And driving through the landscape, obviously you're seeing agriculture, you're seeing nature.
[00:23:28] Alan: And there was an absolute moment in time when an inner voice came to me and said, If you want to form a relationship with the world and with people, You can go and study nature. And I went to agriculture college and studied conventionally. Nine years later, I was in the field, and I was going home for lunch, and I saw my body two meters outside of myself.
[00:23:55] Alan: That was already a bit of a iffy moment. But [00:24:00] I said, I'm going home for lunch and I walked towards home and I walked into Alan and in that moment, this voice came back to me and said, Alan, this is fine what you're doing, but what you're going to think about as an older man, because I was, uh, I was 27 at the time and I was working physically.
[00:24:23] Alan: That's a prerequisite for old age. I was eating organic food that I was growing. That's a prerequisite for old age. So it was almost as if somebody hit me and said, what will you think about? And I looked into the world and said, what form of agriculture honors the world as a spiritual expression? And it's biodynamic agriculture.
[00:24:45] Alan: And that's what took me to study.
[00:24:48] Sadaf: How has it been for you? Has it been difficult for you? I'm trying to understand what your experience has been like because you studied it at a time when I imagine it wasn't very popular. Is that right? [00:25:00] And then, and then how did you deal with, um, you know, like kind of people that had the more conventional view?
[00:25:06] Sadaf: Did you face a lot of criticism, skepticism? Tell us about like what happened?
[00:25:11] Alan: Very difficult process.
[00:25:13] Sadaf: What happened? Tell us.
[00:25:14] Alan: If you, if you go into a pub and I don't do alcohol, but you know, if you went in and you started to have a drink with your. Fellow man in the pub and you say now you must put cow manure in a cow horn and bury it for the winter I'm just gonna say I want whatever whatever he's drinking.
[00:25:33] Alan: So there's been a lot of resistance Where's the science to what you say? Where's the proof? Where's the evidence? So yeah, it's it was is Still even a very insular road that we're working on but you know on planet Earth You There's, uh, a quarter of a million hectares that are grown biodynamically. Uh, Biodynamic agriculture represents 1.
[00:25:58] Alan: 2 percent of [00:26:00] global food. It's taken a hundred years for that to happen. And, uh, you know, we almost only have to get to the hundredth monkey effect. And then things will change, because we know, most of us who are, who are, who are stepping out of the cave, We know that we're transitioning from a very selfish, insecure, unproductive time into that what those creative principles offered us, a world of abundance.
[00:26:30] Alan: So we've got to just remind ourselves we're in transition. And you've got to try and find this sense of peace, the sense of harmony, this absolute resistance to fear.
[00:26:42] CONSCIOUS CONSUMERS AND A SHIFT IN AWARENESS

[00:26:42] Sadaf: You talked about the system and it's going to take, I don't think, I think what's really empowering today is that there's a lot more independent information that's coming out, you know, even like this podcast, it's independent.
[00:26:56] Sadaf: I'm not a corporation. I'm not a media house. It's, you know, it's just, it's my interest and [00:27:00] it's, and I think that's enabled a lot, the word to get out and a lot more people are thinking about it. But I also think that instinctively we know it because every time I tell my friends or anyone that, Oh, you know, I actually order a lot of my produce, not everything, but a lot of it from the biodynamic association, everybody's interested.
[00:27:19] Sadaf: Why? Like, I mean, it's like we know instinctively, there's very few people that are like, oh, you know, no, that's fine, whatever, it's too much trouble. There are people like that, but that's few and far between. I'm finding more and more people are keen because we know instinctively that there is something that's unnatural and not good for us in the way that we find our produce now on the shelves, you know, through this cold chain.
[00:27:42] Sadaf: Transported through this cold chain system and then brought to us. And there is a feeling that we want to eat more local. We want to eat more seasonal. There's a lot of like chronic diseases that have been linked to this. Like I said before about like, you know, gluten intolerance and the destroying of our gut and most people would say, oh, you know, it's just [00:28:00] processed food.
[00:28:01] Sadaf: But Zach Bush talks about this really well, where he says, you know, about his own journey. Like you've worked with Zach Bush, so you probably know the story, but he talks about his own journey as a doctor and how he went into oncology. And then he started like trying to treat his patients with kale juice and it wasn't working.
[00:28:16] Sadaf: And he was like, why isn't it working? You're not doing it right. And then eventually he, he, you know, like through just a series of like investigations, he learned that actually no, his patients were telling the truth and the problem was in the soil. The problem was in the kale, actually, because it was sprayed with all this stuff that was actually destroying their gut and making them worse.
[00:28:37] Sadaf: So I, I think that we all kind of know it instinctively, but there are like, you know, these voices about like, oh, you know, but, but we all imagine that if it was so bad, why, why aren't more people saying something about it? And I guess that it comes down again to the science and to the research, but hopefully now there's been a lot more interest in the microbiome and now we can, things that [00:29:00] felt wrong to us before are now being explained, you know, through like when we're finding that, Oh, actually like the bio, the soil biodiversity is much lower and, uh, the humus The humus is lower.
[00:29:10] The miracle of humus and other processes in soil

[00:29:10] Sadaf: Actually, I wanted you to explain humus. We talked about it before, but, you know, humus is from the soil, and one of the, uh, one of, like, the alternative kind of treatments to leaky gut is humic acid, which is, uh, It's fascinating, you know, because, uh, it's, it's almost like the thing that we lost from the soil is the medicine for the, you know, for the gut and Zach Bush puts that, uh, puts that really well.
[00:29:33] Sadaf: So I think, um, I'm, I'm quite, I'm quite hopeful. I'm quite hopeful for the future. And that's also one of the reasons I'm doing the podcast is because, you know, I want to talk about this particular topic and raise awareness about this. Yeah, but how do you feel now, like now that there is more interest in this whole regenerative agriculture, sustainability from an environmental perspective, but also from a health perspective, do you feel like, do you feel a bit like vindicated, like [00:30:00] finally, like, yeah, I've been telling you guys all this time.
[00:30:03] Alan: You know, I'm actually quite frustrated.
[00:30:06] Sadaf: Are you, okay?
[00:30:07] Alan: Yeah. You know, because I kind of think, you know, if I got to where I got, why aren't my brethren doing the same? I was also subject to the cave mentality and the cave system, so I don't want to consider myself either different, yes, because we each express, uh, some sense of truth.
[00:30:30] Alan: differentiation, but I'm not better. So, yeah, I am at this age, I'm 71 years old. I'm frustrated now more so, you know, I had the passion of youth behind me. Uh, I don't have that youthful passion. I now have a more mindful conscious approach and but but you alluded to something where you said you're instinctively Leaning towards a new direction and I where does your instinct reside?[00:31:00]
[00:31:00] Alan: It resides in your gut So you mentioned a whole bunch of people who also are instinctively I think they all eating relatively well and because they eating well They developing their instinct. So people ask me how much of my probiotic do you, do I take? And I, and I'm often troubled to tell them how much, because I don't know them.
[00:31:27] Alan: And I don't know their bodies and I don't know their lifestyles. So when we were marketing at a market, you know, an old granny would come and say, how much do I have? And while I'm explaining, here's a young rugby player coming, how much do I have? And I'm saying, but, now you must both have the same.
[00:31:45] Alan: Completely different gender, completely different lifestyle, completely different diets. Why would you take, trust your instinct. When you need it, take it. When you don't need it, you won't want it. And, sorry, if I can, I'm going to try and, uh,

[00:32:00] share something in the context of humus. Because humus is an absolutely miracle, uh, So I alluded to earlier that the forest is a teacher.
[00:32:12] Alan: The leaves fall, they decompose, they humify, they mineralize. The humus is the most magic form happening through the microbial activity and decomposition. Because what's happening is they're breaking those leaves from being leaves to become something completely new and completely unidentifiable. And it's called humus.
[00:32:39] Alan: Decomposed organic matter is humus. So it's not this and it's not yet the minerals. It's this position inside where two things are happening. They're breaking down and they're building up. Well, it's a wonderful moment to be in. Chaptain Time, Darwin.
[00:32:56] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:32:56] Alan: Wrote his book on the evolution of [00:33:00] species.
[00:33:00] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:33:00] Alan: Which we, I don't know, misinterpreted really, uh, but it certainly framed the modern context and our understanding of our positioning. What we don't know about Charles, or what 99 percent of the people don't know, is he wrote a book on earthworms. And he, and the earthworm has a fantastic relationship with humus.
[00:33:26] Alan: The earthworm casting, the earthworm waste, is 4, 7, and 11 times richer in N, P, and K, and 11 times richer in humus. So the earthworm was given to the world as that organism that enables these life processes to happen in a healthy way, and there's a fundamental relationship to it. And tie in with the, with the humor slip.
[00:33:54] Sadaf: Uh, you learn that through your work with the land and your work with the soil. And then there's like, [00:34:00] uh, spiritual masters and teachers who have worked, who have learned that through their, through their journey inward. And I think that, you know, if you have many people that are, and there are many people that come to that answer, and you have many people that come to a similar answer, there must be some truth to that.
[00:34:15] Reconnecting with the soul through food

[00:34:15] Alan: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So I used my work always as a form or expression of meditation. You know, you can't, you can't be a farmer and not meditate. You can't spend your day out in a field weeding and not be reflective. Not ask those fundamental questions. Why in heaven's name am I doing what I'm doing?
[00:34:46] Alan: So for me, I mean, I'm totally loyal, uh, to the path that I've been on. So that there were always two things happening for me, uh, from that moment where that inner voice [00:35:00] suggested I could understand nature and I could understand people, I've always been on that path of understanding the nature through the But I've always been on the path of, of developing Alan as a human being.
[00:35:16] Alan: And those two kind of mirror each other. So essentially, there's a concept that we all live within, which is known as the repair of the world. And we were each incarnated to identify a particular weak link into the world in which we live. And our mission is to identify that. and change it. Once you've kind of found your purpose, which would be to make that change, then you need to offer that in service to yours, to your community.
[00:35:55] Alan: If you can do that, you're well on your way to saying, I live my [00:36:00] life, uh, wholesomely, purposefully.
[00:36:03] Sadaf: And so that's what you've, what you've realized through your, through your journey and through your discovery of your own purpose and your own sharing.
[00:36:11] Alan: Absolutely. And it's a continuum. It's going to happen until the day I die.
[00:36:15] Alan: I'll be learning more about my agriculture and I'll be learning more about Ellen.
[00:36:20] Alan’s Current Work
[00:36:20] Sadaf: Tell me what you're working on in at Lindros. Lindros is the company that you founded. You work with, uh, you work in various ways with agriculture.
[00:36:29] Alan: Yeah.
[00:36:30] Sadaf: Um, what, what are you working on at the moment?
[00:36:37] Alan: You know, I ran away from South Africa, uh, in 1976.
[00:36:41] Alan: I was asked to please come and fight a war in Angola. And yeah, that didn't resonate with me. So I ran away for 12 years. And when I came back, I joined a Camphill village. So Camphill village is a home for the mentally [00:37:00] handicapped. Those in need of special care based on an anthroposophical thinking. And we had a biodynamic initiative there.
[00:37:10] Alan: And the farm laborers were the handicapped souls. That, that, that was a fundamental player in the outcome of. Who I am today. So one of my co villagers, because we called the village, the Camp Hill, we called it a village. One of the coworkers that I lived with, both him and I had taken the agriculture to the point where we were now creating an impact in civil society and in Mama government.
[00:37:43] Alan: People were asking, why are you doing what you're doing? And how are you doing it? And, uh, when we left the village, we decided to start Lindros, Whole Earth Consultants, so that we could impart that what we had acquired as knowledge [00:38:00] and skill onto others. And Lindros has been going for 24 years, so there must be something that I'm doing right.
[00:38:08] Alan: And I think what it is that I'm doing right is that I'm chasing after the ability to serve. I've never chased after the money. I've worked for 51 years and I've had a salary for 12. I've had a lifestyle for 51 years. That's what I'm after. So I consider myself to be extremely rich. Even the exceptionally rich can't afford my lifestyle.
[00:38:37] Alan: And I, and I think it's that, that ability to say, I need to give what I have to others if they possibly want to utilize it or resonate with it.
[00:38:51] Sadaf: And, and, and what do you mean when you say lifestyle? Like describe us, describe to us your lifestyle. What's your lifestyle?
[00:38:57] Alan: So most of my time I spend in [00:39:00] service.
[00:39:00] Alan: I work pro bono pretty much four days a week.
[00:39:03] Sadaf: Wow.
[00:39:04] A Vision for Healthier Minds, Bodies and Planet
[00:39:04] Alan: Yeah. I'm the chairperson of Organic in South Africa, the South African Organic Sector Organization. It's a pro bono position. That's awesome. I work as a Biodynamic Director on the Biodynamic Association, pro bono position. I'm the chairperson of the Technological Advisory Group to SABS, the South African Bureau, pro bono position.
[00:39:32] Alan: But what, what, what I'm full of passion with at Lindros at the moment was we were asked, or I was asked, if I could do a training program in the Cape. And I said, yes, but on my experience where I didn't train only the skills and practices and knowledge pertaining to agriculture, I wanted to train a whole person, [00:40:00] you know, because I tried to view myself as a whole person.
[00:40:03] Alan: Why wouldn't I do that for my learners? And we initiated something called the 17 shaft leadership training program, became again another model for both for Mama government and within civil society. When this, uh, colleague of a friend, the Kate, I said, yes, I can, but I need to do it on the basis of a mindfulness approach.
[00:40:26] Alan: Because I had met a lady who works with mindfulness, and in doing her program with her, It captured me because it's just such a accessible, achievable path to a more determined, holistic human being. So I said, listen, I'll come and do the training, but I'm going to ask if Sherry can come and we'll include the mindfulness program.
[00:40:53] Alan: So, currently, Lindros is looking at what's called a ROAM program, Regenerative Organic Agriculture [00:41:00] and Mindfulness, and we are, we're meant to do that, and, uh, we've done it a couple of times, and the change in those souls who've passed you is, uh, Chalk and cheese, they come in, in a sense, one type, and they go out another type.
[00:41:19] Sadaf: That's amazing.
[00:41:20] Alan: That's where my fundamental passion is, and I'm looking for collaborators, either in the Biodynamic Association or in the, uh, in the Organic Sector Association, uh, where we can realize such training programs.
[00:41:36] Sadaf: Yeah, you know, I think that like meditations changed my life too. And mindfulness is, you know, it is, it's a, it's a type of meditation and it's connecting to yourself.
[00:41:47] Sadaf: It's connecting to your soul. It's getting to know yourself better. And I think that, you know, often, especially people that work in the field and farming, it's, it's, it's a very, it's a very tough job. We all, we all have tough jobs, but that is [00:42:00] particularly a very hard job and, and how empowering to give, yeah, to give someone like that, that ability to connect to themselves and to find what they're looking for within themselves.
[00:42:12] Sadaf: You know, so I want to, I want to like lose my anxiety or I want to, and, and sort of maybe I want to find happiness or whatever, and all of that is within us. And so to enable people to. To connect to themselves so that they can then connect to the earth and then connect to the food and Kind of, you know, spread that, that type of energy in the work that they do.
[00:42:35] Sadaf: So I think it's, I actually think it's, it's critical, possibly something that should be incorporated and actually is being incorporated into schools. I didn't, I didn't have it in school when I was growing up, but I know my niece, uh, my niece and nephew, they had mindfulness when they were children. And I think it's, yeah, it's a, it's an essential skill.
[00:42:53] Sadaf: So, so that, that, that really is, um, it's wonderful that you brought it into farming and training as well. And yeah, [00:43:00] I guess we'll keep in touch and we'll keep, uh, we're interested to see where Lindros goes next and, you know, how this space evolves in South Africa. It would be very, very interesting to see how.
[00:43:11] Sadaf: comes up. I think one thing that's quite important is to get people to study this, to get like the universities to start studying the phenomenon that we're seeing, that people know instinctively that we are seeing as well, but perhaps to have some studies around it in South Africa to say, okay, well, we are seeing that the biodiversity is much greater in Uh, biodynamic, through biodynamic methods, or we are seeing that, you know, people's guts are not reacting the same way to biodynamically grown, uh, corn and wheat.
[00:43:40] Sadaf: Um, there have to be studies like this, you know, that would be really amazing to, to, to like, just to give people something to say, well, actually, no, now we know it's not, it's not a humbug, it's not woo, it's actually solid and yeah, I'd love to see that.
[00:43:57] Alan: Yeah. So in a sense, I want to [00:44:00] share just briefly. In the context of the mindfulness, this, this fundamental ability to own yourself in time.
[00:44:12] Alan: So that guy who I was just now behind me, I got no access to that, it's done, finished, gone. That's either missed opportunity or utilize the opportunity, this guy who's standing in front of me unfolding tomorrow or the next day or the next day. He's not amenable to me. The only chap who I can fundamentally depend on is Alan right now.
[00:44:41] Modern vs Holistic Approaches to Health and Food
[00:44:41] Alan: And that's what mindfulness has given me. And that's what mindfulness can give each of us. We have to be literally present in each and every moment. Critical. But I do also want to share a fair sense of optimism towards the future. [00:45:00] You know, because, uh, I've just been invited to do a, um, uh, um, a webinar with the Agricultural Research Council of South Africa, linked to the Department of Rural Development and Agriculture.
[00:45:15] Alan: And they're acknowledging that the system is failing, and they're looking for an agro ecological future as a framework. in which to influence, like you were saying, universities, schools, colleges. So that's a very exciting opportunity.
[00:45:35] Sadaf: How is the system feeling? I'm so curious to know from their perspective.
[00:45:40] Alan: So the farmers are becoming more and more vulnerable. They need more fertilizers. We've seen what's happened in Ukraine.
[00:45:48] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:45:48] Alan: The fertilizer price, I think doubled, if not went more. And it's got to be imported. So there's all that. Impact on the carbon. [00:46:00] They, the farmers are because they're farming, like they're farming, they need more insecticides, pesticides, fungicides, herbicides, ides.
[00:46:09] Alan: So yeah, socially also, you know, I, I'm not working with people. I'd rather work with the machine because the machine strike. But I also lose my humanity when I'm only engaging with human, uh, with machines. So, yeah, we had a, we had a wonderfully critical time in the evolution of ourselves as a species, uh, as to where we're going.
[00:46:33] Alan: And I think we all chose to be born now because there is something we can identify with that will enable that change to happen to us. either more easily, more appropriately, or more speedily.
[00:46:47] Sadaf: This, this, Alan, as you're speaking, right, I'm thinking about ourselves and, and kind of like, you know, it's, it's almost like what the soil is experiencing as a living entity.[00:47:00]
[00:47:00] Sadaf: It's also similar to what we're seeing happening to people in the medical system. I, I don't know, it might be very controversial for me to say this publicly, but, you know, we have chronic diseases, we're medicated, or maybe like, you know, let's say you have raised cholesterol levels, so indicators of heart disease.
[00:47:16] Sadaf: So now you put on a medication or, and then you put, and then after like a few months or maybe a few years, now you've got a new problem and now you put on another medication and then you need more and more and more medications. Or on the other hand, like maybe you've been through a course of antibiotics or multiple courses of antibiotics, like happened to me actually.
[00:47:36] Sadaf: I, I mentioned this to you before, but last year I went to an integrative doctor. I was put on a three week course of antibiotics, uh, proton pump inhibitors, which basically kills the acid in your stomach. It was to treat an infection, but in treating the infection, uh, or the supposed infection, actually, it literally transformed the way my body works in three weeks.
[00:47:56] Sadaf: And then three weeks later, I didn't see a difference [00:48:00] immediately, but then, uh, A few months, like two months after that, that's when the problem started happening and I was like, oh my god, I don't know why, why are all these things happening to me? Why am I having these issues that I have literally never had in my life?
[00:48:13] Sadaf: But that's because I mean, in some way, I disrespected my body, I disrespected, like, I went so strong with it. And then, of course, now, to correct that, now you put on other medication. And then, to correct those side effects, you put on other medication. It sounds very similar to what's happening with the farmers, whereas they need more and more pesticides, more and more herbicides.
[00:48:31] Sadaf: And then, of course, now you're dependent on, uh, You know, because of the way the, because of where the control lies and where these goods come from, you know, now you're dependent, like, if there's a war in Ukraine, now you don't have access to what you need, or it's at a different price, and now your livelihood is held.
[00:48:52] Sadaf: And look, globalization has been amazing in a lot of ways, but I think we do have to acknowledge that, you know, we do also lose some power. And I think this [00:49:00] brings us back to your entire concept and what you've talked about quite a bit on your, I see on your website as well, you talk about food sovereignty and a lot of people are talking about that today.
[00:49:10] Alan: Yeah. The way you described what you said to the absolute reality that those corporations who own the food industry also own the pharmaceutical industry. And their intention is to make you as sick as needing their pharmaceuticals. And I wanted to ask if you know what the second largest, and I think it's the second that might even be the first, largest killer in America is.
[00:49:42] Alan: It's something called iatrogenics. And iatrogenics means that you die as a symptom of your medication. Because that's what, uh, they, they firstly, they don't want you to get well, because As soon as you will, then you're not putting money in their bank account. [00:50:00] So they're maintaining this for as long as the iatrogenics has an effect.
[00:50:05] Sadaf: I don't want to ascribe intentions to anyone and we have to assume and we do assume actually that most doctors even that we go to or most people, it's, it's similar to what you said, like we're all brainwashed by a system. And, uh, maybe we don't, maybe we aren't questioning that system enough because it is, I mean, it's, it's not a, we have to acknowledge the benefits of antibiotics.
[00:50:29] Sadaf: We have to acknowledge that we did get rid of, you know, a lot of people haven't died as a result of antibiotics. We have to acknowledge that when I break a leg, I have a hospital to go to, and I know that I'm not going to, you know, it's not a death sentence for me, like that there's a way out. So we have to acknowledge all these things.
[00:50:45] Sadaf: And so I'm, I'm cautious to ascribe intention. Uh, but what we do need to realize is that we have to question like the long term effects of the way that we are treating our body. And it is no coincidence [00:51:00] that, you know, the, the guys that own the seeds and the agribusiness also owns the pharmaceutical companies.
[00:51:07] Sadaf: Of course, one of the very obvious reasons is because of, because they have, uh, advanced technology and that they research so much and they have this ability to research, uh, And, and learn about food tech or biotech, but then also we have to, we also have to see that there are similar patterns and then we just have to think for ourselves about what's going on.
[00:51:30] Sadaf: You know, like maybe there's something wrong in the approach or the philosophy of the way this thing works because this thing is always trying to solve a symptom or to like suppress a symptom and that's possibly also what we're doing in the soil, we're suppressing like the pests are a symptom of something going on in the food and we're trying to suppress that symptom and when you suppress it, it's okay for some time and then it comes out as something else because that's nature, like it's got to express itself and it's going to It's going to do what it does.
[00:51:58] Alan: Now, you know, when you were sharing [00:52:00] earlier on about the doctors, uh, they're very similar to the pharma in that they are through the system that they come from, they then specialize. So you know, if you go to a doctor for a nasal issue, he doesn't really make the connection to the rest of your body. He specifically looks at that as an issue and that overarching global.
[00:52:28] Alan: Kind of orientation to the body as one unit with different organs, another organism like the biodynamic farm But again, it's just typical of the time We're in and I'm glad to have heard from you that you also seem to acknowledge we're transitioning towards something that will be of You know, of a higher level or status standards, uh, for, for us as a collective species.
[00:52:58] Sadaf: Yeah, like our [00:53:00] understanding of technology, like the advances we've made there, like it's really fascinating. And, uh, along with our, if we just reclaim our understanding of the spiritual sciences and connect again with our ancient knowledge and like a combination of those would be so wonderful. And I think it's happening.
[00:53:15] Sadaf: So it is, it is a positive, it is a positive outlook. From my perspective. Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to share with us, Alan, um, before we close off?
[00:53:25] Alan: And another thing is just to remind us that none of us are born adults. We have to go through an evolution to get to an end point that has no end.
[00:53:38] Alan: So no matter where you are in that position, you know, just remember, be kind to yourself, honor that you're in that process and you're on a path to. A different expression. It's achievable. But it's not gonna happen tomorrow morning. It's not like liking a match and suddenly the flame's there. [00:54:00]
[00:54:00] Sadaf: Thanks, Alan, for making time today.
[00:54:02] Sadaf: It's been very interesting talking to you.
[00:54:04] Alan: Wonderful.
[00:54:06] OUTRO
[00:54:06] Sadaf: Thanks for listening today. I hope you found today's episode insightful and inspiring. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend. Subscribing helps a new podcast like ours immensely. And until next time, don't be a sheep.
[00:54:22] Sadaf: Keep questioning, stay curious, and never stop exploring the extraordinary.