Build Deeper Friendships through Somatic Awareness

[00:00:00] Sadaf: Welcome to Alt Life, where we break free from the chains of conventional thinking and explore the limitless possibilities of a redefined reality.
Introducing Brian Segal: Somatic Relationship Coach
[00:00:15] Sadaf: Welcome back to Alt Life, the podcast where we explore uncommon ideas to help you break free from the chains in your mind and create your dream life. I'm your host Sadaf, and today we're going to explore the transformative power of somatic relationships, how this concept can help us build deeper, more meaningful friendships.
[00:00:34] Sadaf: Our guest in this episode is Brian Segal. A somatic relationship coach and the founder of the Conversation Initiative. Brian's work is rooted in a profound understanding of how we communicate, not just with words, but through our very presence and emotions. Central to building real connections is the art of expressing our feelings in a way that transcends language, allowing us to be truly seen, felt, and [00:01:00] heard.
[00:01:00] Sadaf: Brian's journey to this work began with his own experiences of profound loss and disconnection. After the tragic loss of his first child and the end of his marriage, Brian realized that he had been living in a way that kept him isolated from others and from his true self. This led him to explore somatic therapy, a method that goes beyond traditional communication, focusing on the body's innate wisdom and emotional intelligence.
[00:01:25] Sadaf: In the conversation initiative, Brian has created an environment that fosters open dialogues where individuals can express themselves vulnerably and listen actively without judgment. This process empowers people to explore their emotions, beliefs, and needs, leading to greater self awareness and the ability to build stronger, deeper connections.
[00:01:49] Sadaf: Through this work, navigating conflicts constructively becomes not just possible, but a skill that strengthens bonds and fortifies resilience. Bryan's method, [00:02:00] inspired by thought leaders like Peter Levine, Dr. Gabor Mate, and Brenny Brown, helps people tap into their somatic intelligence. the emotional and experiential wisdom within us to foster genuine relationships that can withstand the tests of time.
[00:02:15] Sadaf: In this episode, we'll dive into how this approach can help one break down barriers, embrace vulnerability, and cultivate the authentic friendships we've always craved. I hope you enjoy it.
Understaing Somatic Relating
[00:02:35] Sadaf: Brian, welcome to Alt Life. An honor to have you. Much pleasure. Before we begin, I just wanna say thank you. I wanna say thank you to Yolanda from the Curious Exchange for having these amazing events and for Yeah, like she facilitated us meetings. Yeah. So thank you, Yolanda. And then I said thank you to her also and sent her a message really to say thank you.
[00:02:59] Sadaf: She
[00:02:59] Brian: did the most [00:03:00] wonderful Instagram post of me. I so amazed. I so surprised by it. I dunno if you've seen it.
[00:03:06] Sadaf: You know I'm not on Instagram. Yeah.
[00:03:08] Brian: I'm also not on Instagram. And so she sent me a special link. And, and this was amazing. I'll send it to you afterwards.
[00:03:15] Sadaf: Yeah, no, that'll be amazing. Yeah.
[00:03:18] Brian: But I, I looked at it and I saw, I said, sure,
[00:03:21] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:03:22] Brian: You know, you never really see yourself or you seldom see yourself.
[00:03:25] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:03:27] Brian: And for me, there were such beauty in seeing how I connected with the audience. Yeah, you did. And that was, and that was something magical. I could feel that connection. I could see that connection. But when I sweeping.
[00:03:41] Sadaf: Yeah. I mean, it's, it's really, we're talking about, you know, your somatic relationship coach.
[00:03:48] Sadaf: And I asked you if you would please talk to us about friendship today, because it's, you know, we hear a lot about, people talk a lot about relationships, like [00:04:00] romantic relationships, and it seems to be top of everyone's mind. But I think that we maybe underestimate the power of good and deep friendships.
[00:04:14] Sadaf: And that's really what I want to explore with you today. But before that, I really, I mean, it was a new term for me, somatic relating. So I'd just like you to explain, like, what is, what is it? What is that?
[00:04:29] Brian: Thank you. So you'll see, I close my eyes and I close my eyes and that allows me to go inwards. It allows me to connect to my body, to feel.
[00:04:42] Brian: the sensations and the nuances that I experience in my body. And that's really what somatics is, is allowing those sensations. So if you rub your finger, just feel the sensation that happens with that and feel how it takes maybe [00:05:00] away from your mind and you're feeling that. And then All of a sudden you can connect to me differently because, you know, I feel awkward, but I don't know, you know, I'm saying our bodies talk and I can see that there's a sexual connotation that society puts on how our bodies talk and I can just feel my awkwardness in, in saying that.
[00:05:19] Brian: But there's such beauty when we're loud. those sensations and feelings to be part of the conversation. That when I smile, you spontaneously smile. Or if you say something that I don't like, my body reacts and frown. And that's when we bring all of those awarenesses in. The conversation changes because I no longer need to have a strategic conversation.
[00:05:47] Brian: But I can have a conversation of flow, of connection. But our mind overrides our body. And for me, my body is my [00:06:00] first level of, of defense, of connection. When I walk into a room, my body scans the rest of the bodies, and automatically picks up energetic patterns. Of them, and I'll feel comfortable with that person, but less comfortable with that person.
[00:06:16] Brian: It happens in an instant. And then that information gets passed into my mind. And then my mind gets into the conditioning of, Well, I have to be polite, you know, um, that's the host. And so, I actually like the host. I can't say that I'm uncomfortable with the host. And so, our body overrides what is a traumatic response.
[00:06:44] Brian: So, what I mean by that. Is that if, as a man, and based on my childhood and my ancestors and my mother, I had a big mistrust of women. And so when a woman spoke to me, I would get [00:07:00] anxious, no matter who they were. Period. That was my trauma. That was because of my upbringing. That was because of my childhood.
[00:07:09] Brian: That I felt less safe. Or, or unsafe. Well, let me say less safe because it's not like you were going to get a baseball bat and hit me on the head. It wasn't as if I was in physical danger. But emotionally I was in danger. So I'd contract and I'd get tight. And then that would make you tight. It would make the conversation really awkward.
[00:07:33] Sadaf: Was that because You felt like you don't understand women, or was that some other reason? Like, where was that coming from?
[00:07:42] Brian: So for me, I'm going to say it's unimportant as to where it comes from. It's the observation. Because the observation comes first. So the observation of the tightness comes first. And then later on, the awareness comes first.
[00:07:54] Brian: But that's what somatic is. It's from The bottom up, it's observation [00:08:00] of a tightness in my chest and then an awareness of what, what it, what that is. And so for me, later on, the awareness was of my relationship with my mother. She wanted to know my emotions. She wanted to know what I felt. She wanted to always connect with me.
[00:08:18] Brian: I'd come home from school and what was the first question? How was school? And I'd say, fine. And she'd say, what do you mean fine? Share with me. But in her anxiety to share with me. Inner anxiety of the ask, it made me anxious and withdrew, and the more I withdrew, the more anxious she became, and so, so there was a lack of emotional trust that I had with my mother.
Vulnerability in Friendships
[00:08:40] Sadaf: You bring up, like, such a good point, that it's not important, that the reason is not important, like, what's important is for us to notice in the moment that this is happening, this is happening to me, and to become aware of it. And we don't necessarily need to know the reason to release it.
[00:08:56] Brian: Yes. So it's just feeling, [00:09:00] feeling the anxiety and, and letting it go.
[00:09:03] Brian: And so let me share with you how we let it go. For me, the best way of letting go is by deep breathing. And that is when I breathe in, I feel my belly button going out. So when I feel the anxiety, I quickly take a deep breath in. And let it out slowly.
[00:09:24] Sadaf: I want to ask you a question.
[00:09:25] Brian: Yeah, please
[00:09:26] Sadaf: do. So how do we know, because our body is trying to protect us, right? How do we know that this is, like, either, like, this is a genuine threat, or whether it's just from my trauma? Like, I'm not talking about in the case of So
[00:09:44] Brian: let me ask you, what are you feeling now?
[00:09:48] Sadaf: I'm a little bit nervous about Like, you know, a bit of my mind is like, you know, trying to make sure I Got the camera angles right and that but then overall, I'm pretty calm actually speaking But
[00:09:59] Brian: as you [00:10:00] were asking a question, I could notice your nervousness. I could notice your throat swallowing hardly.
[00:10:05] Brian: You know, it was a hard swallowing And so I'm gonna say to you at some level You were feeling I like to use
[00:10:20] Brian: the word contracted not attacked. Okay That this conversation was contracting you, even though I'm not attacking you, I'm not here physically attacking you, but in the nervousness of the cameras rolling and the lights and whatever it is, there's this contraction. And so that is your reality. Your reality is that you are feeling less safe with me because of the cameras, because of the microphones, because of the podcasts, because of the expectation of what is the audience going to feel or say or think of you and how are they going to judge you for How well I've questioned you asked or not and all of that feels into your, into your anxiety.[00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Brian: And so the reality is that is your truth is you are feeling less safe with me now with the cameras than you were without the cameras.
[00:11:13] Sadaf: That's true.
[00:11:14] Brian: And that's your traumatic response. I don't think I'm here to attack you, am I?
[00:11:23] Sadaf: Yeah, that makes sense. I guess the reason I was asking that question is because if you meet someone and you find that your body contracts, how much of that is because of like, how would I know?
[00:11:36] Sadaf: I guess in this case, I can think about it and say, well, I mean, I was talking to Brian a couple of minutes ago. I felt fine. And now that we're recording, I'm like, you know, like a little bit jittery. But like, let's say I meet somebody outside and how do I know that I'm not picking up something about this person, like there's something toxic about them or there's something.
[00:11:55] Brian: So I'm saying to you, trust your body and speak into that. [00:12:00] If my body contracts, this is effectively saying that there's a contraction in the energy between us. Either I'm creating a contraction or you're creating a contraction or we're creating a contraction. And when I'm able to speak into that, this is the beauty, when I'm able to speak into that, I establish trust.
[00:12:21] Brian: So if I say that I can feel how my heart is beating a bit faster now, and I can feel how my chest is closing at this present moment as I'm talking, all of a sudden, can you see how much more trust is established
[00:12:39] Brian: and how it deepens connections? So somatic relationship coachings, how do we deepen our connection? That's really what it is.
Safety in Relationships
[00:12:48] Sadaf: I'm thinking like, let's say we do this, right? Like, let's say we meet someone and then we. We notice that we contract. I think for me it's [00:13:00] almost instant when I meet somebody new. I don't know if it's like that for most people, but when I meet someone new, like there's a little bit of a nervousness because it's the unknown.
[00:13:09] Sadaf: You just don't know what you're, you know, who you're talking to or what they're like and a whole lot of different factors. But anyway, I mean, now we get past this, but how do we know that that person is going to respond well to your To your openness because you're like very open but maybe they're not so receptive to that.
[00:13:34] Brian: So what I'm going to say is we all want safety.
[00:13:37] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:13:38] Brian: The universal truth of no matter who you are, no matter what culture you come from, no matter what your upbringing is, is what I want. I want to feel safer. I want to feel safe. We're purposely using the word safer because this is a safe environment. But if I was to move [00:14:00] forward like this, okay.
[00:14:02] Sadaf: Yeah. Can
[00:14:03] Brian: you see how much less safe you feel?
[00:14:05] Sadaf: Yeah. I
[00:14:05] Brian: mean, I'm not attacking you, and so maybe I'm overly intense.
[00:14:08] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:14:09] Brian: But in that, um, what am I making you feel?
[00:14:13] Sadaf: Yeah, less safe. Yeah.
[00:14:15] Brian: Okay. And so it's not like I'm attacking you, and that's what I mean by safe. It means what do I need to do to feel safer with you?
[00:14:25] Brian: And that's safer with you. It's got to do with. My upbringing, it's got to do with my culture. It's got to do with my mother, my father, my relationships, my trust or mistrust of women. And so the less trusting I am of women, the less safe I feel with you, period. The more trusting I am with women. The more trusting I will be, that might still be that I might meet you and I might feel unsafe.
[00:14:57] Brian: And it's how do I honor that? And so [00:15:00] for me, I like to say three words. Semantic coaching is about how we say, capture those, those feelings. And I'm going to say three words. before logic kicks in. Because very often we feel it and then we go into logic. And that's disastrous. I'll explain that to you later.
[00:15:20] Brian: But what happens if you say, sure, I can feel I'm scared. When I meet new people, I get scared. What happens to you if I was to say, Zedeph, I can just notice I'm a bit scared. And when I meet new people, I can feel I get scared.
[00:15:42] Sadaf: If you said that to me,
[00:15:44] Brian: Let's say we just met.
[00:15:45] Sadaf: We just met.
[00:15:46] Brian: Yeah.
[00:15:48] Sadaf: I think my instinct would be to make you, try and make you feel safe and to reassure you that I'm not scary or you can be yourself. Okay. I think it would also instantly like make me feel [00:16:00] like, Oh wow, that was so authentic and I was so vulnerable.
[00:16:03] Sadaf: Like, like I would be a bit, maybe a bit taken aback that you would share so freely, but also it would build a level of trust. Like I would feel like, Oh, you know, at least this person is going to. speak the truth, like the truth or what they feel authentically. Yeah.
[00:16:21] Brian: But, but you'd more than likely feel my anxiety anyway.
[00:16:24] Sadaf: Yes. Oh, you mean if you didn't say anything? If I
[00:16:27] Brian: didn't say, if I didn't say it, you would feel that anxiety and you would, as soon as I go anxious, what happens to you? You know, let me go anxious.
[00:16:38] Sadaf: Yeah. I would also get anxious. And then I guess we'd probably carry on the conversation, but now we're both carrying on the conversation from Like a very cerebral, yeah, from a cerebral space.
[00:16:52] Sadaf: And I think that's what happens most. So
[00:16:55] Brian: now we carry on this conversation of anxiety. So how are you?
[00:16:59] Sadaf: Yeah, I feel [00:17:00] really odd, actually.
[00:17:02] Brian: That's so nice of you in your podcast. Tell me more about it.
[00:17:06] Sadaf: It's hard for me to carry on this conversation. Yeah.
[00:17:11] Brian: But while I'm here, I want to have the conversation.
[00:17:14] Sadaf: I feel so disconnected.
[00:17:16] Sadaf: I don't want to. I actually don't want to carry on.
[00:17:19] Brian: I mean, it's all you. It's all you. I mean, it's all you. You need to get over yourself, girl. So can you see how when I go into anxiety? I put you into a state of anxiety and vice versa, but when I talk into it, so maybe just talk into it, just say, sure, I'm feeling anxious and see how that changes the conversation of, but what I'm discovering is our logical mind doesn't want us to do that, doesn't want us to, to expose our, our inner feelings outwardly like this, but let's just try it again.
[00:17:55] Brian: So, let's just thank you for that.[00:18:00]
[00:18:07] Brian: What's happening here?
[00:18:12] Sadaf: I'm also just trying to reground myself. Okay.
Silliness for Connection
[00:18:16] Brian: Yeah. Yeah. So I'm also trying to, but, but can you feel how that state of anxiety completely Yeah. Throws a off balance. So this is what I do is to reground ourselves. Just to shake it off. Yeah. Take it all. Take your, but also what is also nice is over here I'm shaking my hands.
[00:18:32] Brian: Yeah. But my head is still got this perspective of what the room looks like. It's, and when I shake my head.
[00:18:41] Brian: I find that releases it so much, but all of a sudden, my logic loses control. You can put a poll on your social media, can't you, on your podcast? Yeah, we can. Yeah, we can. So. And so I'd like to have a poll.
[00:18:54] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:18:54] Brian: And so let's do a poll with you with your neat hair like this. And [00:19:00] let's do a poll, let's go brrr and let's have your hair being fluffy.
[00:19:03] Brian: And let's ask people to vote if they see a difference between the more perfect you or the less perfect you.
[00:19:16] Sadaf: Okay, do you want to? Okay, let's do that.
[00:19:18] Brian: How does that feel?
[00:19:19] Sadaf: Okay, let's do it. Okay. Yeah, okay. So
[00:19:21] Brian: let's just go And just ruffle your hair a bit. Okay. A bit more than that.
[00:19:28] Sadaf: Yeah, I did quite well, actually.
[00:19:30] Brian: Okay, okay.
[00:19:31] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:19:31] Brian: Okay. And how does that feel?
[00:19:34] Sadaf: It feels a bit silly, yeah. All right.
[00:19:37] Brian: So let's just be a bit silly.
[00:19:38] Sadaf: Yeah, sure.
[00:19:39] Brian: Because that's also, you were saying, how do we, how do we create friendships? How do we So I'm saying we create friendships by being silly. Dropping the perfection and about being silly.
[00:19:50] Sadaf: I agree, yeah.
[00:19:50] Brian: And I can see that you've got a smile and your glow in your eyes are very different. And isn't that beautiful?
[00:19:55] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:19:56] Brian: Huh?
[00:19:57] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:19:58] Brian: And so let's feed that silliness. What do you want to [00:20:00] feed the silliness with? It might be the first time that you've done this, but this is a podcast to help people.
[00:20:05] Brian: And so, The majority of people would be in that state of not being silly because that's what society teaches us. And so let's just be silly. Okay. See how hard it is to be silly. How do I be silly? Oh my God. Oh
[00:20:23] Sadaf: my God. Oh, how do I be silly? Do you have some ideas?
[00:20:32] Brian: Have a nut. And let's look at the nut.
[00:20:38] Sadaf: Okay.
[00:20:40] Brian: I mean, I'm making this happen. Yeah,
[00:20:41] Sadaf: yeah.
[00:20:42] Brian: And let's just. Feel the texture of the nut, and look at it, and rotate it, and let's put it on the nose.
[00:20:52] Sadaf: Okay.
[00:20:53] Brian: And we'll have to look up a bit. Okay. And so look at me with the nut on the nose. I don't know how this is going to work.
[00:20:59] Brian: But you [00:21:00] want to, here, want this?
[00:21:01] Sadaf: Oh. Oh, you've got a cashew, so it's balancing nicely. There we are, because
[00:21:04] Brian: mine is
[00:21:05] Sadaf: easier. Yeah, it's a bit easier. I've got an almond, it's a
[00:21:07] Brian: bit harder.
[00:21:11] Sadaf: Well, that's great. And now we can eat the nut. And
[00:21:14] Brian: now we can eat the nut, okay. And how much more taste does the nut taste?
[00:21:21] Sadaf: Mmm, yeah, a bit contaminated, but fine, yeah. Contaminated?
[00:21:27] Brian: In my opinion, it's connected. I'm connected to the food.
[00:21:34] Sadaf: You make a great point.
[00:21:35] Brian: So, when I sit over here, when I sit like this, how does that touch you differently to when I sit like this?
[00:21:42] Sadaf: Yeah, if we both just Or
[00:21:44] Brian: just, um, you
[00:21:45] Sadaf: know,
[00:21:46] Brian: or just you, or just you respond to me. And so just notice how different it is, how different my touch is on you. I'm talking about touch as a sensation on you.
[00:21:58] Brian: Can you see how?[00:22:00]
[00:22:03] Sadaf: Yeah. In, in some ways it's, it's a bit safer.
[00:22:08] Brian: What's safer?
[00:22:09] Sadaf: Do you sit like this? It's a bit safer because. Now I'm not connecting. Isn't that interesting?
[00:22:19] Brian: But we're talking about friendships. And so yes, it's safe. It keeps me protected. It keeps you on the outside. It keeps me distant from you. You're never going to really know me.
[00:22:27] Brian: And so, okay, so, so, so, uh, Brian, please tell me what somatic relationships are. Somatic relationships are the sensations that you feel. Somatic relationships are the sensations you feel in your body. Do you understand that? This is now feeding the logic. And so. We can go into the intellect of it, and we can go into the theory of it.
[00:22:53] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:22:55] Brian: And in that, we keep ourselves in the head, and we keep ourselves activated over here, and then you say, [00:23:00] Oh, bravo! And now, Have a theoretical knowledge of what semantics are.
[00:23:07] Sadaf: Can we go back to feeling connected?
[00:23:11] Brian: Yes, I prefer you far more that way.
[00:23:14] Sadaf: Yeah,
[00:23:15] Brian: I
[00:23:16] Sadaf: think that was so interesting for me because as soon as we turned, for people listening, I'm just going to say what we did, we turned away from each other slightly, not even a lot, and we tried to continue speaking.
[00:23:30] Sadaf: And what was interesting for me is that I felt safer in some senses, I definitely felt disconnected from you, but I also felt safer. And this tells me something, I guess, about myself, right?
Breaking Out of Echo Chambers
[00:23:42] Brian: But most of us at some level feel safer alone, because when I'm alone, nobody's there to talk to me. I mean, we don't see ourselves and we lose a whole sense of dimensionality, [00:24:00] which is tragic.
[00:24:01] Brian: But isn't that what religion is? Religion is me going into my loneliness, into my safety of, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm morally superior than you. Do you know that?
[00:24:20] Brian: My religious belief, yeah, I'm far more morally superior to you in, in your religious belief.
[00:24:30] Sadaf: It's, I mean, I wouldn't say it's necessarily that thing per se, but it's about how we grasp onto things. So we could say the same thing about culture or political views, you know, like I'm left, you're right. You know, and like, and my, my political views are superior to yours.
[00:24:49] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:24:50] Brian: So that's what I'm saying is when we go into that logic, into that judgment, into that, into that self righteousness of, oh, I can't believe your political [00:25:00] views. I mean, how stupid are you to have such weird views? I mean, sure. I mean, I mean, really, how can you have such weird views? I mean, I don't know what your political views are, but can you see what happens when you When I judge you for the views that you've got, what happens in the conversation?
[00:25:20] Sadaf: Yeah, it's, it's, you know, it brings up a defensiveness in me and, and immediately like it makes me want to, not just a defensiveness, but also an aggression because now I want to like fight back and say, well, no, your political views are stupid or whatever. You don't like, I want to fight back. I want to protect my, protect my.
[00:25:45] Sadaf: My view of myself. I think that's what it is. I want to, yeah.
[00:25:49] Brian: So what's really interesting is how there's this defensiveness of our difference of political views, but we don't really even know what our political views are. Yeah, yeah. But just is that, that does not go into my judgment of [00:26:00] you, for you, whatever your view is, whether it's political or social or religious or cultural or.
[00:26:06] Brian: Whatever it is, all of a sudden you become guarded and defended and, and, and how well can I have a friendship with you? What happens to the friendship?
[00:26:14] Sadaf: Yeah, I mean, there's none. I suppose maybe this is why we, when we meet people, we try to quickly suss them out, right? We try to quickly see, well, what do you think about, like, you know, what do you think about this?
[00:26:25] Sadaf: Or what do you think about that? We look for cues that tell us that they have similar, a similar belief system to ours, or at least a value system to ours. Yes. And that is, and maybe in that there's some kind of safety because then you feel like, Oh, I won't be judged by this person. This person can understand me.
[00:26:44] Brian: So someone asked you a question about friendships.
[00:26:48] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:26:49] Brian: I'm going to call it silos.
[00:26:51] Sadaf: Yeah. So
[00:26:52] Brian: you're talking about silos that when I meet people that are of the same value system as me.
[00:26:58] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:26:58] Brian: I'm in the same [00:27:00] silo as you. I can feel safe.
[00:27:01] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:27:02] Brian: What is the danger of that? What is the danger of me only having friends that are within my same silo?
[00:27:12] Sadaf: I'm in an echo chamber.
[00:27:13] Brian: Within my same echo chamber, within my same ethnicity, culture, religiousness, political beliefs. Whatever my echo global warming, whatever my echo chamber
[00:27:27] Sadaf: is.
[00:27:27] Brian: What happens, what happens if we've only got friends within our echo chamber?
[00:27:34] Sadaf: Our minds don't expand, but they can't expand because we're not, we're not like exposed to other, other people.
[00:27:43] Sadaf: And then I think more than that, actually, you never build real empathy. Like I'm going back to this conversation I saw with you and Apiwe. And that conversation exposed, just like showed me so much about the [00:28:00] underlying like cultural tensions in South Africa. And I feel like we would never have that if we keep meeting people, like if you just met white Jewish males and, yeah, and didn't meet, or even just white males.
[00:28:18] Sadaf: Or white people.
[00:28:19] Brian: Or even just Jewish.
[00:28:20] Sadaf: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:28:21] Brian: Whether they're males or females. Yes. Yes. Yes. It's the same dynamic.
[00:28:24] Sadaf: Yes. Yes. It's the
[00:28:25] Brian: same dance. And so we don't develop trust.
[00:28:28] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:28:29] Brian: For me, I call it a one legged table.
[00:28:32] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:28:33] Brian: It takes so much effort for the table to stand. You have to get it perfectly balanced.
[00:28:37] Brian: Or, you know, you can't really let go of the leg of the table, but when I am able to cast friendships out of my silo, all of a sudden I'll end up having a two legged, three legged, four legged. table that gives me trust, it gives me stability. And the most important thing is that it gives me trust of my own culture.
[00:28:59] Sadaf: I don't understand. [00:29:00]
[00:29:01] Brian: So in this conversation here, maybe I'm wanting to explain it this way, that when I'm in my own silo, I don't ever have to really develop myself. I don't really have to develop my identity because as a Jewish male, I know we're going to go Friday night supper. And I know we're going to do this.
[00:29:25] Brian: And I know we're going to do that. So in that, I never really have to develop my identity. I never really have to explain what is important because in my silo, in my echo chamber, we all know Friday night supper is a little weird, but the moment I meet you, all of a sudden I'm challenged. I have to start explaining to you what is important to me about my faith, my religion, my culture, that I value.
[00:29:58] Brian: And then in that exploration, I might [00:30:00] discover that it's not so much Friday night supper, but it's a sense of family. It's a sense of unity that I really enjoy. And in that, I'll begin to understand what within my silo is that enjoyment. It's not the Friday night supper, it's a sense of community that Friday night suppers bring to me.
[00:30:23] Sadaf: Right. I understand now. I understand what you're saying.
[00:30:29] Brian: And then in that, we find a place to connect because you can share something around what is important in your culture that creates connection. And so, all of a sudden, my Friday night supper and your whatever Muslim celebration, festivity, or whatever you do, creates connection for you.
[00:30:50] Brian: And then all of a sudden, I can begin to say and say, Oh, shit, that's really nice. So we both love connection.
[00:30:59] Sadaf: And we [00:31:00] can find a commonality. And we can find our humanness.
[00:31:03] Brian: Of course.
[00:31:04] Sadaf: Because we both like something.
[00:31:07] Brian: That's deeper than just the, the doing.
[00:31:10] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:31:11] Brian: Just the doing of Friday night.
[00:31:13] Sadaf: Yeah.
Friendship in Romantic Relationships
[00:31:14] Brian: For me, the primary thing of a relationship is a friendship first.
[00:31:18] Brian: It's a friendship, yes. With specialness. With deeper relating. But it's not just a physical contact. That friendship aspect of the intimacy. is so important to me, as opposed to just the physical intimacy, the physical contact. I don't want to have a relationship just for physical contact. That's me personally.
[00:31:48] Brian: I'm wanting to have a friendship that is physical. And so when you're asking, let's not talk about, or let's talk about friendships and relationships, I'm saying relationships are also [00:32:00] friendships. And so what I'm saying here is as important, if not more important, with your partner. And then it becomes more scary, because of course it's easy in a friendship to talk vulnerably or to talk my feelings.
[00:32:18] Brian: But to my partner, oh no, you know, I mean, uh, you know, I can't say that I didn't like your supper last night, can I? I mean, you're going to get offended and, and what happens if you get offended? And so there's this barrier of me being scared to say, you know, sure, do you mind if I say that?
[00:32:41] Brian: You can get at that. Yeah, that I don't like spinach, whatever it is, you know, with friends you can say that, or it doesn't matter, but with a partner, how much harder is it to be your truthful self?
[00:32:56] Sadaf: Because you know it's going to hurt them, or it may hurt them.
Honesty and Connection
[00:33:00] [00:33:00]
[00:33:00] Brian: Ah, so that brings also back to loneliness. Can you hurt me?
[00:33:08] Brian: Or do I hurt myself? So for me, I'm going to talk about honesty and connection.
[00:33:13] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:33:14] Brian: So over here, because somatically I'm feeling you and I'm somatically feeling you, I'm the safety and the openness in it, I can start saying things. And what will happen is if I overstep the boundary, my body will tighten, or your body will tighten, or somatically I'll feel that.
[00:33:32] Brian: And so then I know that I've stepped, overstepped the truth that can be heard, or overstepped a boundary. But in this flow of honesty, I create safety and I can be honest. So one of the things that come from me that's very strong is vulnerability while things change. And so for me, the beauty of having these conversations is I can see how it changes me moment to moment to moment.
[00:33:56] Brian: And one of the things [00:34:00] that I'm really upset of is that men are always labeled as trying to pick up women and trying to. Pick them up and, and I can see how earlier on I reflected of how beautiful you were looking, soft your face was looking, and then my internal critic comes in and saying, but Brian, is that appropriate?
[00:34:21] Brian: And that brings a contraction, but then I could feel that there was a softening in you in it. And so I knew that it was received, not as a pickup line. But received as, as a, as a, as a connection, as an acknowledgement, as a recognition. And that's really what I'm doing is just recognizing that change of pace, the change of, of flavor, of nuance and, and, and, and.
[00:34:48] Brian: And so that's what I'm learning now, and even now I can feel that as I'm talking about it, my throat is getting tight and I've got a lump, and my internal critic is saying, Brian, be quiet, you're over talking, just let it be. [00:35:00] But those are deep societal anxieties that I carry, or that we all carry, at different levels, at different topics.
[00:35:10] Sadaf: I think what this conversation and the way that it's gone has allowed me to do is it's allowed to connect with you, and also, I suppose, receive, receive your Your views and your approach in the intention. It was meant. Yeah. Thank you Yeah, so I suppose that that probably why I wasn't even a little bit offended by what you said In fact, like it was a compliment.
[00:35:40] Sadaf: So thank you.
[00:35:41] Brian: Thank you.
[00:35:42] Sadaf: Yeah
[00:35:43] Brian: That's what I'm saying is that in that that's when talking about the self regulation is that I don't know you and I don't know How are you gonna take me and you don't know me and You don't know whether I'm trying to pick you up or not or whatever it is, but in the softness, in the flow, I could see that it landed with [00:36:00] nourishment.
[00:36:01] Sadaf: Yeah, I suppose exactly that. And then I suppose it would be the same when we meet people, right? Is that we can tell immediately how a person is receiving something you're saying. What happens if I don't receive that well? Then, like, how, like, let's say, you know.
[00:36:23] Brian: So for me it's about honesty.
[00:36:25] Sadaf: And,
[00:36:25] Brian: oh, sorry I didn't mean to offend you.
[00:36:28] Sadaf: And then does that sorry make me awkward?
[00:36:32] Brian: So this gets on about hurt. And so often it's in our disconnection that we then, the story of our mind, that creates the disconnection. So I said, Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you and I leave it at that and allow you to soften or harden. And if I notice you softening, then I can see as well received.[00:37:00]
[00:37:00] Brian: And if I notice you're hardening, I can say, I'm not sure if you understood me or did you misunderstand me, then I'm allowing you to talk for yourself of what's happening in you and not me. To go into my story of, you know, when we started this conversation, remember you said, sorry about my microphone.
[00:37:22] Sadaf: Yes.
[00:37:23] Brian: Okay. And then you were playing this whole story of whatever it was. And, and the more you're playing that story, the more I was feeling the tension and going back. And, and so it's about, Oh, sorry about the mic and feel into me. Am I tensing? Am I being offended? And if you sense I'm not being offended, well, then you don't need to talk more into it.
[00:37:49] Brian: And if you feel that I am hardening or being offended, well then find a different way to talk it.
Awareness of Your Own Body
[00:37:57] Sadaf: One of my challenges is [00:38:00] that I don't know if I can read people's body language as well as you do.
[00:38:06] Brian: I'm not reading your body language.
[00:38:08] Sadaf: What are you reading?
[00:38:10] Brian: I'm reading mine.
[00:38:12] Sadaf: Ah.
[00:38:14] Brian: I'm noticing my breath.
[00:38:16] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:38:16] Brian: I'm noticing the tension in my mouth. Okay. And so I noticed all of a sudden. That my mouth was, over here there was a strong swallow and when I felt that I looked at you and I saw your Adam's apple going up and down. But at first, the sensation was first in my body, and I felt that change, that biorhythmic change in me.
[00:38:39] Brian: Because if I'm trying to analyze your body language, I'm sitting there and thinking, okay, so let me have a look at what's happening.
[00:38:46] Sadaf: And
[00:38:46] Brian: I'm busy using my logic and my logic is busy going and saying, oh, she's nodding three times, that means approval. And It's a soft nod and, oh, what, is that a genuine smile?
[00:38:55] Brian: Isn't that a genuine smile? And so as I kind of look over here, [00:39:00] I'm analyzing and in my analytics, it's the same thing as judgment. When I'm analyzing you, what happens to you?
[00:39:09] Sadaf: Oh, I feel really awkward. Like I want to leave, actually.
[00:39:15] Brian: You see someone analyzing you. No, I noticed your eyes flattered. What does that mean?
[00:39:19] Sadaf: Yeah, yeah, I know. That's very awkward.
[00:39:21] Brian: Is there something wrong in this conversation? I noticed your eyes flattering. Am I doing something wrong? I mean, I'm really trying to connect with you and just understand what's wrong with our body languages and, and why are we kind of struggling and I want to understand, what am I doing wrong?
[00:39:37] Brian: Please share with me. What am I doing wrong in this conversation? I really want this to be an important podcast. I want the viewers to understand me. What am I doing wrong? That's me trying to understand you, analyzing you, analyzing your movements. I mean, it's exhausting. Fuck, I'm exhausted. [00:40:00]
[00:40:01] Sadaf: Yeah, me too.
[00:40:03] Sadaf: It's exhausting.
[00:40:04] Brian: Yeah.
[00:40:05] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:40:06] Brian: And so just now notice what happens in your body. Is it relaxing? Okay. And so that's all that you notice. Oh, it's relaxing again. Okay. So I notice my body relaxing. I can notice my chest opening and going like this. I can notice me wanting to take a deeper breath, and
[00:40:33] Brian: so that's all I'm really doing is I'm talking to you, noticing
[00:40:36] Sadaf: what's happening in you,
[00:40:37] Brian: what's happening in me, a bit of anxiety here or a bit of tension here. I'm not judging it. I'm just noticing it and just noticing that as I put attention to it, it moves.
The Dynamics of Toxic Friendships
[00:40:49] Sadaf: This brings me to another question about toxic friendships.
[00:40:55] Brian: Okay.
[00:40:56] Sadaf: There are people that we want in our lives. [00:41:00] It could even be family members, right? We want them in our lives for some reason. Maybe they give us something. Maybe they, they provide some kind of emotional need, yet when we're with them, we feel maybe contracted or maybe small or uncomfortable or they've like, and, and this is a pattern.
[00:41:27] Sadaf: We keep doing this. I just want to understand more about this phenomenon.
[00:41:39] Brian: So, let me start off by maybe being a bit controversial.
[00:41:43] Sadaf: Okay.
[00:41:44] Brian: And saying I hate labels.
[00:41:47] Sadaf: Alright.
[00:41:48] Brian: Because if I label this as a toxic friendship, what am I really saying?
[00:41:56] Sadaf: You're saying I'm a toxic person, if you say it, then you're saying I'm a toxic [00:42:00] person.
[00:42:00] Brian: Yes.
[00:42:00] Sadaf: But if I say it, then I'm saying you're a toxic person.
[00:42:02] Sadaf: Okay. Yes.
[00:42:03] Brian: So we're labeling, we're labeling each other. I'm putting the blame on the toxicity that exists within this friendship on you. This is a toxic friendship. This is a toxic friendship with all you. And then I lose an understanding of the awareness of me. I am a creator of that dance. I am a creator of the toxicity.
[00:42:32] Brian: I chose to be in friendship with you, to dance with you, out of familiarity, out of addiction, out of codependency, out of whatever, whatever my patterning is, out of neediness, out of loneliness, out of whatever it is, I chose to be in this friendship and now you're the toxic one. Of course, I mean, You know, I'm the saint over here.
[00:42:59] Brian: I [00:43:00] mean, you know, I'm, you know, I'm not doing anything to this conversation. You know, you're just, you're just toxic. Do you, do you realize how toxic you are? Can you feel what happens to you when a joke has been toxic?
[00:43:14] Sadaf: Again, it makes me want to defend myself. It makes me want to Yeah,
[00:43:17] Brian: but that's your toxicity.
[00:43:18] Brian: I mean, you just don't understand me, do you? Can't you see how toxic you are? I'm not saying that they're not toxic people. That's different. There are people that would struggle to have this conversation that you are and I am because that'd be Too guarded and too defended and, but in that realization, not walk away from it.
[00:43:40] Brian: Okay. There's not the connection, there's not the flow. And so the first establishment of a conversation, of friendship, of relationship is established flow. And the moment there's no flow, the relationship or friendship goes into toxicity.
[00:43:58] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:43:59] Brian: [00:44:00] Period.
[00:44:02] Sadaf: And in both, both parties are, are creating that toxicity.
[00:44:07] Sadaf: They're dancing this dance that's creating
[00:44:09] Brian: the byproduct is toxicity. So I'm going to say, I'm responsible for that toxicity. Not that you've, yes, you're a co creator of it, but I can only take accountability for me, for my actions. So if I notice the disconnection, stop the conversation. The moment I carry on with that conversation, then, Sadaf, you just don't understand me.
[00:44:31] Brian: You're just not getting me, are you? I mean, I'm trying to explain it to you in four different ways. And why don't you understand what I mean? Okay. I can't believe it. I am the toxicity because the connection is lost. I'm talking at you. And when I talk at you, I stimulate your toxicity and you talk at me.
[00:44:57] Brian: And so the only thing that I'm in control of [00:45:00] is how do I not talk at you? How do I say, sure, I need to go to the toilet now. That pause, realizing that it's toxic or, oh, I can't have this conversation quite now, it's not a blame. It's a realization within myself. I don't know how to connect and so the truth might be I'm finding you really abrasive and so I can't connect.
[00:45:23] Brian: But if I say that to you, what's going to happen?
[00:45:28] Sadaf: We get defensive.
[00:45:28] Brian: Yeah. So it's about that realization that it is abrasive and so Sure, I just don't have, I don't have the right skills, and it's an admission on myself that I don't have the right skills, because whatever the reason is, and so, I just don't want to have this conversation.
[00:45:47] Brian: And can you, and that's more accepting to you if I say, sure, I feel unsafe having this conversation. And of course toxic friendships exist, but that's because of my own wounding, [00:46:00] my familiarity, how many toxic relationships that I have with women. Of my woundedness.
[00:46:09] Brian: Of my neededness. What I realized about, yeah, what I realized about a month ago I was brought up in a family environment where my mum said, You can't hurt women.
[00:46:27] Brian: And I saw how disempowered that made me be. Yes, I understand physically I can't hurt you. But if we want to go out for supper and you like Chinese and I hate Chinese and you say, Brian, let's go for Chinese. What happens if I say no? It was, you know, dying for Chinese and I don't want Chinese and so I have to say, Oh, Chinese is wonderful.
[00:46:57] Brian: That's lovely. Let's go for it.[00:47:00]
[00:47:02] Brian: And so what I'm learning is the permission set that I can be truthful to myself. And if my truth hurts you, well, that is for you to deal with. No, I don't like Chinese. Can we go somewhere else? And if you choose to be hurt by my rejection of your Chinese or my rejection of what I'm feeling. So it's, I mean, I'm using restaurants, but it could be within anything.
[00:47:31] Brian: It's something that you need to look at.
[00:47:34] Sadaf: And how would I look at that if, let's say now, I feel hurt that you don't want Chinese or you're
[00:47:41] Brian: I'm sorry, I just want to share with you that I don't like Chinese. It's not about you, it's about me. And leave it at that. I can't force you to look at it. But I can be strong in that I feel unsafe with Chinese.[00:48:00]
[00:48:00] Brian: I feel less safe going there, doing that.
Uncomfortable Interactions
[00:48:05] Sadaf: What about if it's relationships where You know, it's not something, it's not like something like this, but someone's said something to you that makes you feel small. It's like a throwaway comment, but instantly you notice that you contract that.
[00:48:22] Brian: So this is the beauty of somatics,
[00:48:24] Sadaf: right?
[00:48:25] Brian: How would you normally answer that?
[00:48:27] Sadaf: Actually, I wouldn't. I just tend to let it go and just then carry that heaviness inside me, , and walk away. At the end of the conversation, very politely finish the evening or whatever time we have together and then Later on, say, okay, this didn't work out. Maybe I shouldn't see this person again, or let me
[00:48:49] Sadaf: take a
[00:48:50] Sadaf: break.
[00:48:50] Brian: So it's really establishing terms of endearment, isn't it? I mean, as you're talking, I can feel how my body wants to go. I can [00:49:00] feel how I want to withdraw from the conversation because you're not sharing the truth. And so I'm sensing it. I'm sensing your uncomfortability and that's feeding back into me.
[00:49:14] Brian: So even by not speaking about it. You are speaking about
[00:49:17] Sadaf: it. You are speaking about it. Oh my god, that is, yeah, that is, I mean, it's so obvious with everything you've said, but yeah, you're right.
[00:49:26] Brian: You know, so now I can feel your body softening, I can see this, oh, you're right, and now all of a sudden I want to be part of the conversation because there's an honesty of, of, yes.
[00:49:37] Brian: And so what I'm learning is I need to speak about it. Some might say something like, Sir Diff, I feel really uncomfortable. That's somatic. I'm not explaining why. I'm not going into the logic of why. But yeah. I'm feeling my body tightening, I'm feeling my chest closing, and so I'm just going to say to you, Sure, I'm feeling really uncomfortable now.
[00:49:59] Brian: And [00:50:00] if I say to you, just put yourself in that position where we swap roles, If I say to you, Sure, I'm just feeling uncomfortable, what happens to you?
[00:50:09] Sadaf: First I'm taken aback, and then I want to lean in and be like, well, what happened?
[00:50:13] Brian: Yes. So it gives the pause, it gives you the, it gives the opportunity for the other person to say, Okay.
[00:50:20] Brian: I'm interested, why are you uncomfortable? And in that they're now inviting me in, they're asking me and they're leaning in. And I can say, well I'm uncomfortable because I don't like coffee and you've offended me. Right. By offering me coffee. Okay. And then, but there was a, there was the invite. You can then say, but shit, I didn't really know that.
[00:50:42] Brian: Or you can say, Brian, that's your hang up, get over it. But there's the flow. In that. I'm feeling uncomfortable creates the opening of the flow. Whereas if I just kind of said to you, I don't like coffee, I'm offended. [00:51:00] What happens? I mean, you've got no nuance to my cultural sensitivity. Do you?
[00:51:05] Sadaf: Yeah, you're attacking me.
[00:51:07] Brian: No, I'm just telling you about my cultural nuance. By my sensitivity that you should know about. I mean, didn't you do research beforehand about who I am and what I am? And surely you should know that I can't drink from these kind of cups that they offend me. And so this is my. This is my charges coming up, but I'm, but I'm expressing it in quite a toxic way, aren't I?
[00:51:31] Sadaf: Yeah, I'm totally blocked. Like, that's it. I'm, I'm blocked, like.
[00:51:35] Brian: Okay, so then just go back and just respond with your body in a somatic way of what's happening in you and just, you know, you know, I'm feeling comfortable. Yeah, so, so, so, I mean, I don't know why you gave me coffee in these cups. It's ridiculous.
[00:51:48] Brian: Why? Why did you do that? Drop into your body. Talk what's happening in your body, not in your mind.
[00:51:54] Sadaf: Yeah, I'm starting to feel, I'm feeling anxious, actually. Okay. And, and I guess that's why I go into my mind.
[00:51:58] Brian: So that's fine. Yeah. So then just [00:52:00] feedback that to me. So Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling really anxious. So let's do it.
[00:52:03] Brian: Yeah. So I can't understand why you're giving me coffee in these stupid cups.
[00:52:08] Sadaf: I mean, this is crazy, even though I know you're pretending, but like, this is bringing up anxiety in me. And also, like But, but when I
[00:52:16] Brian: see, when you share it that way, you're giving me logic. So what's wrong? Why are you anxious? I mean, you're so stupid to be anxious.
[00:52:24] Brian: Can't I say that I don't like coffee in these cups? What's wrong with me saying that I don't want coffee in these cups? And why are you getting anxious because you don't like me saying that?
[00:52:35] Sadaf: Yeah, my heart is racing.
[00:52:36] Brian: Okay. So you see what happens when you give anxiety. But when we just take the fact.
[00:52:41] Sadaf: Yeah.
[00:52:41] Brian: Of just saying my heart is racing. So, so I don't know why he's getting coffee in this cup. My heart is racing. You see how that stops me? Now I have to say,
[00:52:56] Brian: Why is your heart racing? Because you're stating that somatic [00:53:00] truth. You're not stating logic of, I feel my heart is racing and I am going. Over there, it's a groundedness. My heart is racing. And in that, there's a woof. An energetic woof. So I'm going to do it to the viewers, that there's this energetic woof that hits me.
The Energetic Pause
[00:53:18] Brian: That's somatically woof. What's happening? Am I maybe being a bit arsehole about this cup? Or, you know, there's that pause and in that I can say, Why is your heart racing? And in that, the conversation goes, so it's always going back, when you feel that, go back into that, and there's very few people get that, they love going into the logic, we can't, I mean it's stupid to say my heart is racing, I mean what kind of a sentence is that, what kind of conversation is that, what kind of idiot am I going to be, I'm saying, oh, my heart is racing, you know, I want to be clever, I want to be, I want to match you, I want to outsmart you, I want to kind of, fob you off for, You [00:54:00] being such a stupid arsehole about the cup and how dare you do that?
[00:54:03] Brian: You know, bluh, bluh.
[00:54:07] Sadaf: That's amazing.
[00:54:08] Brian: So that's toxicity. And then there could have been two responses. You could have said my heart is racing. And I could have attacked you. Well, why is your heart racing? What's wrong with your heart? Do you need to go to a doctor? And then you know that it's time to get out of the conversation.
[00:54:26] Brian: Because I haven't got the ability to establish connection. I'm so wound up in my trigger. I'm so wound up in my self righteousness about the cup and my preciousness about how it has to be bone china. You know, I come from an English background. It has to be bone china, not the silly thing. That you can't establish that connection.
[00:54:48] Brian: And so that is when you need to go. So try it once or twice. My heart is racing. And then if I attack you back, give another somatic cue back. And if I attack you [00:55:00] again, then you know that, sure, it's not the right time to have the conversation. Whether that is with a friend, whether that is with a mother, a father, a brother, a sister.
[00:55:11] Brian: Maybe have that conversation with your mother a few days later, when she's not triggered. Because what happens is when we trigger, we lose our logic, we lose our ability to hear, we lose our ability to connect. And so take a break and come back in a few days time and saying, Ma, I'd really like to have a conversation with you about the other night.
[00:55:31] Brian: Are you open to that? Once again establishing connection. No, I'm not.
[00:55:37] Sadaf: Okay.
[00:55:39] Brian: Well, yes, I am. And then the connection flows, but not in my reactiveness. But how many times do we have conversations with people in reactiveness? At the moment I go into my reactiveness, what happens? You go into your reactiveness.
[00:55:54] Brian: And you shout at me, and I shout at you, and, of course, it's actually so wild, isn't it?
[00:55:59] Sadaf: Hmm. [00:56:00]
[00:56:02] Brian: And it's your fault. I mean, you just don't know how to connect. You just don't know my feelings.
Brian's Journey: From Logic to Somatics
[00:56:10] Sadaf: Brian, I hear you talk so much about getting into your body, but I also know that You are an electrical engineer by training.
[00:56:21] Sadaf: And you also, I mean, also you had a, you have, you have a business.
[00:56:25] Brian: I sold it.
[00:56:26] Sadaf: You sold it. Okay. So you had a business and you developed this really cool software.
[00:56:33] Brian: Yeah. So it was a business that enabled tour operators, bus operators to develop, to deliver their commentary in 32 different languages. So on the same bus, you could have 32 different nationalities all listening to the same commentary.
[00:56:51] Brian: And so it was a technology driven company that used electronics and technology and GPS, and it was [00:57:00] strongly logical. And that is where logic serves, in that the system can't sometimes work and sometimes not work. Okay, it's just, it's fitting a certain purpose and that's where logic is really, really important.
[00:57:16] Brian: But what I discovered is logic didn't make me happy. I might have won the battle. I might have won contracts. People might have loved my product and might have bought my product. But did that make me happy? No. And so that was where my journey really began into this is, is I also, through this, I've traveled to 80 different cities, amazingly different cities, culturally diverse.
[00:57:41] Brian: And I began to see that the people in all of the cities were really the same. They all loved to feel, they all loved to connect, they all loved to share their stories of intimacy. It didn't matter what your nuance was, what your culture was. You wanted to share with pride of this is [00:58:00] my culture, I wanted to show it to the world.
[00:58:04] Brian: And me and my western thinking at first said, Huh? Middle Eastern culture? Islam? Oh my god, I can't believe you, I mean I hope you not. It was something like that, because that would kind of, you know, and I could see my own judgment, my own contraction, that, of course, this was after 9 11, so every Muslim that I met had to be a terrorist, or had to have a brother who was a terrorist, or who was as extremist as a terrorist, or etc, etc.
[00:58:41] Brian: And I could just see all of this judgment that I hold. But when you sat down with them, you spoke to them, you discovered their humanity, you discovered their pride that they had in their Islamic culture, as much as I had a pride in my [00:59:00] Jewish culture, my Western culture. And I realized that at some level, my Western culture must be as alien to them as on some levels, then the Islamic or Muslim culture must be to me.
[00:59:15] Sadaf: How do you go from being a very logical person that's living in your brain, to someone who's so connected to your own body, like what, how do you do that, like from a very practical perspective?
[00:59:29] Brian: By taking a deep breath, as simple as that, slowing down and connecting to my body, and so now, yes, I've been doing this for a long, long time, and so I've retrained my brain to step out.
[00:59:45] Brian: My logic trusts my body. My logic trusts that this is my safety circle, and so For most of the time it steps out of its rationality and allows me to say, okay, Brian, feel into your body. I trust what it is. I trust that when you speak [01:00:00] from the softening that I'm feeling right now, that that's the right thing to say, but that takes years of trust.
[01:00:08] Brian: But what it starts off with is just a noticing of my lump in my throat, of my chest closing, of my chest opening, of my breath tightening. of my stomach getting harder. And first of all, that's the first step is to notice that. The second step is to say to your logic, I know I'm going to be stupid. I know I'm going to be an idiot, but I want you to just trust me and let's just play with this experiment and see how it works.
Practical Techniques for Self Soothing
[01:00:40] Brian: I feel my heart is beating fast, like you expressed to me, or whatever that somatic experience is. I can notice I'm swallowing hard, or I can notice my body softening and enjoying this. Just I notice my body softening. [01:01:00] And start playing with just those, I'm going to say, three or four words, five words maximum, because then we get into the logic.
[01:01:10] Sadaf: And is it necessary to express that to whoever you're with? Maybe you can start with a partner and then it becomes a bit easier, or can you just notice it to yourself?
[01:01:20] Brian: No, you need to express it. So of course, don't start with everyone. Start with your partner. And then as you see that change happening, then you start, you say, Oh, this is working really nicely.
[01:01:31] Brian: Let's take a friend. Let's take different relationships. My mother, my father, whatever. But start with one person with two people. They read it differently, so I'd say start with two people. Maybe my partner's close to it, but my friendship is open to it. And then I can practice this with my friendship because there's a warmth, there's a receptivity, there's a heart.
[01:01:56] Brian: And so that is in reprogramming my brain that it works. [01:02:00] But if it's not working, stop with that person.
[01:02:05] Sadaf: How has this work changed your relationships in your life?
[01:02:10] Brian: I'll come back to that now. What is important is, so that's the one thing, breathing. The other one is soothing. We don't soothe ourselves. So whether the soothing is just rubbing your finger, or just rubbing your nail and feeling how different it is.
[01:02:30] Brian: Just feel what happens when you soothe yourself. You're angry with me. And what happens is before you answer, you just soothe yourself. You feel the in breath come automatically as you soothe yourself. And so then you answer from a different place of reactivity. Your reactivity changes. You can soothe yourself by hugging yourself.
[01:02:56] Brian: Just gently like this. Your [01:03:00] back, just that much. You'll, you'll find your own way of soothing. Or the other one is by placing your hands on your thighs and pushing down on the heart. So in a business meeting, you can't really go with your boss and say, just hold a second, let me do this. You can certainly put your hands there and just go like that.
[01:03:19] Brian: Just push for a few seconds and then release. And a bit lower on your legs. Just push and release.
[01:03:34] Brian: So those are really the techniques. Explore soothing. What soothing is for you. Find your own method of soothing. One more thing that's really important on soothing, yawning and stretching. Because if you stretch, even in front of your partner, if you've agreed with him and saying, look, whenever we get tense, I'm just wanting to just pause.
[01:03:59] Brian: I'm just [01:04:00] saying to you, so if just pause, I just want to stretch. Come, let's just both stretch and stretch again in our legs. And so if that's your agreement that you've got with your partner, the moment you feel tension, you're going to have to be fun. And you're just going to stretch. You're not avoiding the conversation.
[01:04:19] Brian: But you just bringing a soothing energy in or what I love is you have your hair's messy. You just, you know, fast. Just, but then obviously you have a prior conversation with your partner, that if you feel tense. So I would say something like that is sort of I've just heard this podcast and it's about a different way of listening.
[01:04:44] Brian: And so I might do a couple of weird things in the next, in our next conversations. I might like soothe myself and you might see myself. rather than answering you rubbing my hands or, or yawning or stretching. Bear with me. Don't think I'm mad. [01:05:00] Okay? I might answer from a body response. It might be inappropriate.
[01:05:04] Brian: And so I'll learn whether it's appropriate or not inappropriate and, and have this conversation when there's connection, not when there's a fight. Because when there's a fight, there's a reactivity receptivity. But over here, I can see you smiling at me and you're open with curiosity to listen to This madness that I've got of, I'm going to soothe myself and I'm going to yawn and straighten.
[01:05:25] Brian: So in the middle of next time we're having a fight and I go, Oh, I don't want to yawn. You know about it. So it's
[01:05:32] Sadaf: really important
[01:05:35] Brian: to get your partner's permission. or your friend's permission, if it is something as obvious as that. But if it's something as breathing, then you don't have to.
Brian's Current and Future Projects
[01:05:48] Sadaf: Yeah, that's, I feel like I already have a new appreciation for what's happening in relationships.
[01:05:54] Sadaf: So thank you, Brian. That was really, really helpful. What are you, [01:06:00] so you're, you're, you coach clients?
[01:06:02] Brian: I coach clients. I'd love to do public speaking.
[01:06:06] Sadaf: Okay.
[01:06:07] Brian: I'd love to do Zoom calls one on one. I'm wanting to do something with a call. HeartWalk Made Easy, which is actually a Zoom call where people speak about their real relationship issues and I help them work through it in a somatic way, help them understand it somatically because so often our brain prevents us from a deeper understanding of what is our contribution.
[01:06:36] Brian: Not from a point of blame that's only me, but from a point of realization that I can change my world, I can't change yours. And as I change my world, I change how I engage with you. So when I soften, I encourage you to soften. And when I harden, I encourage you to harden. And so [01:07:00] it's really about an understanding that when I change my world, I change the world around me.
[01:07:05] Brian: Do
[01:07:06] Sadaf: you want to talk about your Any other projects?
[01:07:11] Brian: So as a logical engineer, I'm busy doing a project that defies all logic. And that is I'm trying to make a documentary about the Palestinian Israeli conflict or crisis of getting sides that are really polarized. To connect one or two degrees more, more through the somatic approach, through this deep hearing, through connecting, through the connection that your pain is my pain, your loss is my loss.
[01:07:48] Brian: It doesn't matter whether I'm Jewish or Arab or Palestinian. It's a loss of life, and if I can feel what your loss is like, then you can feel what my loss is [01:08:00] like. We can connect differently and change differently and have a different outcome that's not necessarily logical, but based on connection. And so this defies all logic.
[01:08:12] Brian: It's going into this wildfire. It's going into, you know, jumping in at home, and I'm doing it with awareness. And so it'll be a very interesting project, very different to a talking, very, to this combative kind of conversation that's around.
[01:08:35] Sadaf: That is so, that's really inspirational and very brave, very courageous of you.
[01:08:44] Sadaf: But I think from the little bit that I know, actually I feel like I know quite a lot more now, I feel like it could, this is, yeah, this is, This might be the only way, or one of the only ways. [01:09:00]
[01:09:00] Brian: We have to do something to change humanity. And the Palestinian Israeli crisis is one, just one of many examples of humanity going wrong.
[01:09:10] Brian: Not the only one, I'm not doing it as a blame, just saying it's one of the many examples. In gender, in relationships, that's humanity going wrong as well.
[01:09:23] Sadaf: Well, you'll keep us posted.
[01:09:25] Brian: Thank you.
[01:09:27] Sadaf: Brian. Thank you.
Outro
[01:09:29] Sadaf: Thanks for listening today. I hope you found today's episode insightful and inspiring. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a friend.
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