Energy Healer Reveals: Healing Begins When You Stop Being the Victim

Do you know that anger is frozen pain?

There is a pattern, and I call
those patterns the language of

soul.

In this episode of Alt Life, I sit down
with Lou Bogner energy healer, author, an

intuitive channel who helps thousands move
from emotional wounding to soul alignment.

Can I make you

see that you are playing a role
of a person that is disempowered?

We explore how

forgiveness not force is what mouth
pain and why deep healing begins

when you stop being the victim.

Forgiveness

is something so powerful, but
it's not done for somebody else.

You're actually doing it for you.

It's a jewel of another kind that you

are acquiring.

If you are holding onto pain, anger,
or the stories that keep repeating,

this episode might just open the
door to a whole new way of healing.

I know that there are a lot of
lightworkers like yourself in

the world, but it'll be really
interesting to hear a first person

perspective on what does that mean?

And if you were to describe what you do,
what would you say it is that you do?

I, I think I told you once that when
you feel deep in, in the core of who you

are, that you are just a channel, right?

An instrument.

Then it is very difficult to
ask, to ask the, the instrument

to define anything, for example.

You wouldn't ask a piano to
define music, you wouldn't ask,

uh, I don't know, a pot to define
cooking or to tell how it came out.

So it's like very difficult.

But there is things we can say and
things that I can express because,

you know, after being on this
planet for almost 70 years, you,

you learn something looking back.

And I look back to my very, very,
very, very early childhood and I

realize I got such a big guiding when
I was six or seven because there was

like a big colony of leper people.

And my parents always said to
me, you are not allowed to go and

play around there and go there.

And guess what?

You tell that to a child,
the curiosity gets bigger.

And then I thought, I wanna see
these people that are suffering.

And when I look back, I realize it wasn't
as much to go against my parents, but

it was a deep desire that had come with
the little soul that I was then to help.

And so that, that has defined my life.

And after that hiding, I got many
other hidings because I was all the

time in, in, you know, in the heart
of somebody sick and I was perpetually

attracted to people in suffering.

And you felt that you could offer them
something, that you had something to

offer them, and that's through you.

You could help them in some way?

Yes.

I didn't know.

I didn't know.

When you are a child, you
don't know of the people.

When I grew up being so brutal, they would
tell me that I had the gift, whatever

that translates in, in the language that
we were speaking at that particular time.

But you don't understand that.

But if somebody comes to you and says,
put your little handier, and then the

next day they tell you that they feel
better, that is like extraordinary.

It goes beyond that.

It goes really to the deep core
of what is inscribed in the

soul, arriving on Planet Earth.

Planet earth.

So you've got souls that want to help
souls, that want to build souls, that want

to dance, souls that want to play music.

So we all have this unique talent and
this unique desire for our lives and that

that in me expressed and I was totally
focused on sick or suffering people.

That's where I would go.

Can you describe what that, what
do you do in a healing session?

What's your, what's your process?

Is it the same every time?

Is it different?

Do you have a protocol?

Well, first I want to hear the patient.

That takes the longest time.

So sometimes takes an hour, sometimes
takes two hours just to listen.

It's not that I am a bad listener,
but I do interrupt them a lot.

I do make them conscious because
people have got this song playing.

I am a victim.

He hurt me.

That one beat me, whatever.

So I have to interrupt them
to make them see, uh, and I

interrupt them with love, eh?

Because you know, people come
to me very fragile, especially

after trauma of any kind.

But I do say to them, can I make you
see that you are playing a role as

you telling me that you're playing a
role of a person that is disempowered?

I understand you've been hurt.

I understand you've been beaten up,
understand you've been whatever,

raped it goes on and on and on.

But can you see that
DVD or CD or whatever?

It goes on and on and on and on.

So you have to sometimes make
them aware because we have

forgotten the power of words.

So from stopping them, sometimes I take
them to laughter because I always say,

just, just imagine if we are playing
the role, then I also have to play.

Now you make me play this role that you
know, I know it all and I'm gonna make it

better and I'm gonna make it disappear.

And that's not how it works.

Because we are so perfectly and divinely
encoded from within that we all understand

deep down what is happening to us.

And so it's important to connect to
that aspect of you that is truly divine

and say, what part could I have played?

In this event in my life,
what, what did I do?

What did I say?

What did I not do?

What I, did I not say to attack something
like this in my life, if I have gone

through an episode of violence, what
part of me expressed violence somewhere?

And if you start doing all this search
within, then you realize that deep

down everyone you encounter is gonna
mirror back to you a part of yourself.

You know, Lou, it's so interesting
that you say that my experience, or

at least my, whatever I've seen in the
world so far has been so different.

I see people that are doing horrible
things and they get off scot-free.

At least it looks like it.

Uh, people that are war criminals
killing millions of people, and it

looks like they have a great life.

And then you hear stories of.

The social worker lady who is so kind and
dedicated her life to social work and then

she gets like held up and killed by the
same people that she was trying to help.

How do you make sense of that?

I don't think that we can forget that
there is a lot of evil in the world.

Evil always comes across as
victorious, but it's not.

So it's, it's a fake victory.

We could go into politics.

I mean, I could slide straight
into the Middle East and tell

you what's happening there.

It's very evil.

What happened in Germany to the Jewish
people that are now doing the same

thing to the, is also just as evil.

So then we have to understand there
must be a law somewhere if we are

eternal spirits, where the souls that
inflicted something like this now have

to experience something like this.

And I often wonder the Middle East partly.

Victims and Nazis all over
again, the same souls playing

the same script all over again.

When you study Hinduism, the great
philosophers of Hinduism and the great

Masters and the Great Minds and the
Great Souls, and the Great Saints

always talk about this cosmic play
where everyone is playing a role.

When their life comes to the end, of
course, their, the role is finished.

But the, the, the life here
is not the hand of anything.

It's just the hand of the body because
the body is made of elements that belong

to the Earth, so they will stay on earth,
but your spirit goes, and when it's ready,

comes back, takes another costume from
those earth elements, makes a new body.

Depending on where you been before and how
you evolved, you're going to be placed.

You choose to be placed in this area
or that area or that nation or that,

that culture or that color, so that you
learn again from experience to become

better, to not repeat your errors or
simply, they also believe in so and

rip more like the Christians do, that
you have to pay if you have a debt to

life by mistreating it, you'll have to
live a life where you are mistreated.

So that doesn't, that doesn't take
from the pain that we experience

and I personally by watching what's
happening in Gaza, for instance.

And I see these people breathing this dust
of all those explosives and everything.

And I, I always think, you know, if I
was there, I wouldn't last two minutes

because my weak spot is my lungs.

So I feel great pain and I feel great
sorrow and, and if I lived nearby, I would

probably be there and already be gone.

Obviously my soul chose
to be somewhere else.

But it is important for us to
understand that if we are truly

eternal souls, then we live forever.

And everything that we have inflicted
upon someone as pain, we are gonna have to

experience it ourselves because our health
would we understand what we've done.

You know, I like to think about
it in a slightly different way.

Go for it.

I want to hear.

So I think that whatever we do,
the pain is in the action and

the benefit is in the action.

So as an example, well I like to
think at least that the person who

is, or the people that are ordering
the killing of so many people,

they have no peace in their life.

And maybe the social worker who was
killed by the people that she was trying

to help, it doesn't matter actually,
because she lived her life very.

Internally, like she had a deep sense
of accomplishment or peace or joy.

And that's how I like to think about it.

I think just from my own experience,
that when we do something that has

a positive effect in the world or
on people, we feel good inside.

And ultimately, what
is her purpose of life?

Why are we all after certain things?

It's for our own experience, right?

So as an example, why do I want
success, financial or otherwise?

It's because it makes me feel good inside.

Or at least I think it will
make me feel good inside.

And the same way, like we avoid
doing bad things because in

the action of that is the pain

for your soul.

And also, yes, you're absolutely, and
we can see that with, with uh, what's

happening to the Israeli uh, soldiers.

They are totally damaged.

They are completely, those
people will never be human again.

They will not be functional because.

They, they broke all the lines.

They passed all the barriers of cruelty
and on top of it, now apparently

there is a list on the ICC with
photographs, so they can't even travel.

They can't go anywhere.

And so they damage themselves already.

And that is because also in terms of
time, there is an acceleration of time.

What you do now, you wanna pay now, you're
not going to have to live again and come.

I think we are at the end of cycle
of incarnation for the souls on

this planet because a lot of people
are unaware of the fact that we are

reaching end of cycle for redemption.

Okay.

Yeah.

So, uh, what we are witnessing,
for example, in Gaza and

some other places is the end.

That is why for us, that already
have evolved a little bit above

our eye for an eye and a tooth
for a tooth and a leg for a leg.

And I don't know what we are
feeling that so profoundly.

Yeah.

And so painfully in our souls and
in our hearts, because we already,

uh, ascending to some degree, right?

The planet earth is a consciousness
of such benevolence and such motherly

love that it has accepted, uh,
what is called laggards from other

systems and other planetary systems.

And so we are reaching that
limitation of the earth.

So we are close to 9 billion and
they, we are souls that come from

many different worlds and many.

Different dimensional fields and
everyone is trying to learn now

because we, they know and we know at
some level that this cannot continue.

We cannot continue to go on this cycle.

We just have to open the pages
of history and it's horror after

horror, after horror, after horror.

But, but having said that,
it is part of the learning.

It is part of the realization
of, of how we are one with

every single thing around us.

We are one with the earth.

We are one with the ocean.

We are one with each other.

We are one with the universe.

We are one with the cosmos.

We are one with a galaxy.

We are one with everything.

There is nothing that we are not a part
of, but we are not taught like this.

Yes, we are not taught like this.

We are taught as in them.

Black and white.

Yes.

Less white, but less black, whatever.

Everything in our planet to this point has
been taught to humans to separate them.

Look at children in a creche.

They don't see each other's color at all.

You don't.

You don't see your color.

You don't see, I grew up in rural areas.

I was the only white person.

Nobody ever told me that I
was the only one white person.

Have you seen like a pattern of like
the kinds of issues, people, like

most common issues, whether it's
emotional, like an emotional root?

Cause?

I have noticed in

my life that it is always by patterns.

It's always by.

Uh, and that is where I definitely
became so grateful because I realized

that I am an instrument being used.

And at some point they decide, this person
with this condition must go through there.

That person must find me.

I must find that person.

So there was a time where it was
only sexual trauma, then it was

all kinds of abuse still very
related to, to sexual trauma.

But of all kinds, you know,
somebody would arrive after they,

somebody tried to cut their, their
neck and really severe things.

And I remember saying to the
spirit, uh, guides and, and

helpers, this is too much for me.

It's just trauma after trauma,
after the bloody situation,

please send me something else.

And then I would have very light,
gentle people with just depression.

One after the other, after the other.

It was like a rest face,
just people very depressed.

And he left me, and I'm
so sad and she left me.

And I'm so sad.

That kind of, of situation.

And again, I said, you know,
okay, I, I, I rested a little bit.

Send me something else.

I. I started to receive people
that were dying of cancer, fourth

stage terminal cancer patients, one
after the other, after the other.

But even those were not sent
without some sort of pattern.

First there was brain tumors, then
there was liver tumors, then there

was anemias, you know, blood cancers.

And I saw all the time the pattern, and
then I thought, wow, it's like amazing.

I couldn't help but realize that
these order in, in this, in in,

in the universe even of who goes
to who, at what particular time,

have you noticed any emotional blocks?

Are common amongst like, let's say
the people that are suffering from

cancer or the people that have been
victims of abuse in trauma, physical

violence, people that are depressed.

Have you seen any kind of emotional
blockages or any kind of common,

there is a pattern, and I call those
patterns, the language of soul speaking

through biology, for example, if
you are too head focused and you are

thinking at great speeds about this,
that, and the next, you find that you

start having problems with your head.

So I've never found, uh, patient
with a cancer in the head that

was not functioning along that
pattern for quite a while.

Like you mean overly analytical,
overly analytical, over overly

thinking, overly sometimes controlling.

And you, you have to realize
that everything that is

given to you, every faculty.

It must be used with care.

It must be used with deep love and
reverence really, because your body is

an instrument that has to carry you for
a certain period of time on planet earth.

So you co abuse this one or that one.

Sometimes I see people running, I go
walk all the time every day by the beach,

and then I see people they're running,
you know, they're absolutely exhausted.

You can see they continue on this running.

And then I think to myself, this abuse of
their joints and this abuse of their heart

and this abuse of their lung capacity
will also translate in something that's

not going to be good, uh, along their
lives because, you know, it's like an

abuse of the body.

It's interesting you see it that.

I would imagine they're exactly
trying to strengthen those organs.

No, no.

You have to look at every organ
at every part of life with

absolute love and reverence.

For example, look at a flower.

You wouldn't just cut the flow anywhere.

You would go very gently and oh,
either with your nails, you clip it,

or you take something and you know, at
the right place, right, to give that

flower enough life for you to enjoy.

Otherwise, you just take like
that that is, is finished.

So there is, I don't say that people
mustn't run or mustn't jog, but even in

that there must be, uh, love and reverence
for your body and respect as well.

Going back to these cases of
trauma, when you work with your

healees that come to you to get over
whatever trauma they've suffered.

I'm, I'm really curious to know, because
it sounds like the, you know, the,

these weren't like mild cases of trauma.

It sounds like really severe trauma,
even from what you've described Nan

previously, how do you work with them?

Do you just try and heal, heal
their heart, and is there any

work that you ask them to do?

That is where I sometimes don't
know how I do it, because I, I feel

in those moments that there are so
many people in the room, not just me

and the patient, or the patient and
myself, but there is so many helpers.

I'm going to give you a specific example.

Yes.

I remember, I, I wrote the story in
the book, my Sacred Moments of Healing.

There was this young man, he had
been raped but severely damaged.

They cut him and.

And then they proceeded to rape his body.

He had been in a performance,
this happened while he went to the

toilet during the alpha hour break.

So you are so in shock, so out of
body, because people don't know this.

When you go through shock like
this, you are not in your body.

So you actually do not feel the pain.

You don't feel the cutting, you don't
feel, this is how God created us as well,

is that if we have to experience something
so traumatic, your body's floating down.

You associate yes, your
body's floating somewhere.

So he was bleeding terribly, but
part of his costume, he was, he

was, uh, dressed with the, uh,
tights that were red, blood red.

So he put his tights back
and he went onto, onto the

stage and then he collapsed.

And that, that's when they realized that
wasn't what it was blood really coming out

of him and he was hospitalized and saved.

And when he came for healing, I had talked
to him about the casing, the book that I

wrote in the book, which is another boy.

I said to him, I want you to know that
you're not your body when you accept

this reality, that you are not your body.

That who you are is truly
the, the, the eternal spirit.

One more reason for you to love and,
and, and, and revere your body because

you know, you're just using this
thing that you have to leave behind

right when it starts collapsing.

And I said to him, I wanted to think
like that because he, you focus on your

body, you're going to be focused on
the parts that were cut and the, you

really, you know where you put your mind.

There you are.

Yes.

So literally, so I said, I want
you to think of yourself as a.

Untouchable spirit where nobody
can cut, nobody can rape, nobody

can harm, nobody can do anything to
you because that's what happened.

When that happened.

You were observing everything from above.

Most likely, you, you
couldn't feel a, a thing.

I wanted to lie here and I
wanted to try, try to think of

that spirit that left the body.

And as I place my hands above on, on
your body so that those memories melt

a little bit, hopefully you'll, you'll
float and fall asleep and not long.

You obviously succeeded.

And I hear, and as I
hear that I embraced him.

I actually gave him a big hug.

He was lying on the bed and I
just went over and I gave him

a big hug and I woke him up.

And I said to him, you see,
you just passed out again.

See proof that who you are is not
the body, is not, that's this part of

your biology that got, uh, that hurt.

Was he struggling to sleep?

He couldn't sleep.

He was just obsessing to us.

Yes.

Yeah.

So anyway, as we, I proceeded to keep my
hands on his heart because his heart was

still very painful on his head, and all of
a sudden he opens his eyes and he says, I

can feel Harry's other hands touching my
feet and other hands touching my knees.

I said, yeah, they come
from multidimensional beings

and they, they help us.

It was so funny.

We felt again, like this,

that is made, made like fluffy.

Cotton candy, cotton candy.

We felt like clouds were so dense
they felt like cotton candy and

they were pink all around the room.

And I, I could see these things
and I thought, well, you can't

see that because I assumed it.

And he said, I see
things like cotton candy.

You know, there's this
dissolving over my body.

I see them and then they disolve.

I said, yeah, it's the angels.

They're sending you love and, and healing.

And so things like that can happen during
a healing because you, you must remember

what I said at, right at the outset.

If you are an instrument, you
never know what's going to happen.

Yes.

Right.

And I don't have a particular
protocol other than speaking first.

And you know, before I touch the person
because I want to be an instrument

for whatever's going to happen there.

But I do cry a lot.

I do hold my patients
that are so traumatized a

lot.

Uh, so with this particular case now.

It sounds so horrific because I wanna
ask the question like, did he get better?

I'm sure he time totally.

Or was he able to live a functional?

Totally, totally, totally.

Because

I always tell people, if we live
forever, and if every human experience

is a lesson,

so we learn as, as victims

and we learn as perpetrators, and we
also have to swallow our ego to the

possibility that at some point we might
have hurt somebody in the same way, in

some primitive life where we, we didn't
have much inte to even think because

in the past it used to be like that.

People used to just take one and then have
sex like that, like, like almost savages.

Or the animal instinct was there.

I. So I said to him, just open yourself
to that possibility and say, I'll forgive

myself and I'll forgive these people.

Wow.

Because if you don't,

if you do not

see what

is the purpose of pain, there has
to be some lesson learned there.

Right.

And I, I think you read my
book, we are here to Learn.

Yes.

Yes.

Did you see what Jesus said to me
as I was about to print the book

in the lesson of forgiveness?

I asked him, I said, I, I'm,
I'm giving this book to print

and I wrote this lesson.

I know that I was helped to write this
lesson, but I still don't know the essence

of forgiveness, and I feel that I'm gonna
print a book that doesn't complete it.

So I said, you had a life here
amongst us on planet Earth.

Right.

You, you had such a horrible life
where you were betrayed and beaten

and what was all that about?

Yeah.

When you say forgive, and he
answered with such profound words.

Oh my God, I, I, I memorized these words.

He says,

you see, beloved

high two had come

to learn that, which I had to teach.

Yes, I remember that.

Now that you say it.

Yeah.

How else could I learn what it is
to forgive if I had not allowed

all of them to either betray me,
you know, and it goes on like that.

And that's how the chapter works.

Because you know when, when he said
these words in my head, I understood

for that moment I understood
so fully what forgiveness is.

Because

if our soul is here to learn
to dance, ballet is one thing.

It's very light and very easy.

It's very lovely if our soul is here to
acquire goods and bling and wear them,

and it's very nice and very pleasant.

But if our soul is here to truly expand
and learn the hardest, most powerful

lessons in the universe, right?

Let's look at forgiveness.

How can you learn that lesson if
nobody ever hurts you, dude, like

this, this boy that went through this,
he was, I assume he was quite young.

Yes.

Not as young as the one
with the priest in the bar.

In the, in the, in the.

In the story, but um, yeah,
he was 22, 23 as well.

Yeah.

When

you broach the subject of forgiveness
with them, is it like in the first

session already or do you wait or
there a journey that they go through?

No, I have to to broach him

because you won't believe
this, but normally people

do not need to see me twice.

Okay.

Yeah.

And so I have to use that opportunity
to literally download into them while

they are in that vulnerable state.

Things stay, they stay in the subconscious
and they stay in the conscious level.

And so I have to immediately take
them into that direction because

forgiveness is something so powerful
is something so beautiful, but

it's not done for somebody else.

You are actually doing it for you.

It's a jewel of another
kind that you are acquiring.

Yes, of course.

We, we forgive for, we forgive to
let ourselves, to set ourselves free.

Exactly.

But you also forgive to let the
way to go because you know, if you

don't forgive, you are carrying the
weight of this person's actions.

And you know, what I've learned
is that nobody on this planet

hurts people on purpose.

It's their own pain.

Yes.

It's always their own pain
that goes out of control if, if

you tell a very angry person.

And I have had to do that to some of them.

They arrived in, they already
angry and not Yeah, not with me,

obviously, because they, yes, yes.

It's the first time they're meeting
me, but they have brought so much

anger and the moment I say to them.

Do you know that anger is frozen,
pain that is inside for so long

that it's becoming worse and worse
to carry, and it's showing in your

face, starts showing in their face.

They, the ladies, they get the,
the lips all cracked and, and they

get the, the hear all cracked.

And, uh, the man, they got the eyes, they,
they get the little eyes and the little

mouth, you know, there's a face for anger.

But when you tell them that for the first
time, that, that their features actually

are relaxed because they hate themselves
for feeling the anger, without knowing

that the anger is due to the frozen
pain that is there and acknowledged

for so long in the first place.

So then I, I say to these people, you
know, let's go back to maybe when you

were a child, what happened there?

Some say to me, I had
a beautiful childhood.

My mother, my dad was very beautiful.

I said, okay, and everybody else in your
surroundings, there's a lot of damage

happens with neighbors, with people with.

So eventually, you know, they
open up to something that is

there some, it is so deep.

The, the, the, the highest is so solid
that it doesn't, it doesn't flow But

uh, when it starts throwing, they cry.

And, uh, always, I know maybe this is
not appropriate for the show, but I

tell them anyway, one tear is one ton
of shit that you have to let go, let go.

And I really, in, in those moments,
you know, it becomes like a,

a one-on-one, uh, love story.

I really, really say.

Please cry more.

Until they, they laugh and cry.

And they laugh and cry, and
I hold them from the back.

You know, if they're
sitting now, they cry more.

Cry more.

You know, because you're dissolving all

that frozen pain and you find
that once people cry, that

it's easier to let go of anger.

Yes.

Because you see, everything is about
bringing from the subconscious, from the

non aware part of us to the consciousness
to, to being conscious of what it is.

Once you know the reason

you can be mastered of yourself again.

Right.

Yeah.

Lou, you know, it's so difficult.

I feel like we don't, I think
sometimes we hold on to anger on

purpose because there's, we have this
idea that if we forgive someone or

if we let it go, that we're letting
them off the hook, but actually

we're keeping ourselves on the hook.

Yeah, that's right.

So sometimes that's the case, but
there are times that I found in my

own, I. I mean, it's not terrible,
but in my own life that I sometimes

can't get over the anger or I
might forget it while I'm happy.

For years and years, I was really angry
with my uncle who cheated my father.

So every time I thought about that
and in the years of pain my father

was put through and my mother and our
whole family, I'd get really angry.

I've since been able to let it go, but
I feel like that's a lot of self-talk

and a lot of stuff on my own spiritual
journey, but I know that there are a

lot of people that struggle with that
and myself as well in other situations.

Yeah.

Well, there is a few mantras.

I am a great believer in the power
of mantras because mantras allow you

to, to program your, your, your head.

Right?

And I always teach people that
your ad functions like a computer,

inputs in outputs art, saying.

Same level.

So if, if all the thoughts you are
having as a, uh, as a, as a output is

from that experience, then you have
to cancel that experience and you

have not, not to cancel it, but to
literally dissolve it in some way, right.

And create it because either
you believe that we are creators

of our reality or we are not.

So people, uh, if they create a
beautiful garden and they're gonna

show to everyone, look at how
beautiful I created, all puffed up.

You take ownership of your good
creations, very easy, but you don't

take ownership of the bad ones.

Yes.

Yeah.

So I believe that we are creators of
our reality, and we're not creators

of our reality just on this dimension.

We are multidimensional beings.

So many things are
happening simultaneously.

So mantras is what you
repeat all the time.

And I say to them, the most
powerful is you have no power.

You have no power.

Here comes this thought.

You have no power,

and you keep going and going and go.

So you're saying to the thought
that this thought has no power.

No power, exactly.

Yeah.

So until this thought just
gives up, literally gives up.

Do you understand?

And then it goes back to
nothingness because everything's

coming out of nothingness anyway.

So sometimes it's good to send it back

to nothingness.

It's an energy that's Yes.

I'm, I'm so curious.

Can you see, like if you, if you meet
somebody apart from their facial exp

expressions, can you see it in their aura?

Yes.

Can you see auras?

Yeah.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

And what does it look like?

I mean,

I, many, many, many, many, many
years ago, I used to see people

around, I used to see the auras.

I used to hear voices.

I, I asked my guides and my
helpers on the other side.

I said, please limit a little
bit to those side effects.

I call them side effects because I
want to be focused on the person,

not on what I'm hearing and what I'm
seeing and what I'm, do you understand?

Yes.

So I only, I said to, to them, you, I
give you permission to cut all these

links with all those side effects, because
I want to be focused on the person, on

how do I bring this person from this
illusion of separation to being connected.

Connected again.

You know, because I see these people
as almost being off the grid, you know?

So I have to bring them back
into, into oneness with life.

Makes a lot sense.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

So I don't want to, only if what I
need to see, it's going to be really

pertinent to this person's healing.

Right.

I'm gonna give you a superb example
that happened to me not too long ago.

I had this black gentleman, he was great
professor at the University of Pretoria

and he was referred to me by some other
professor or whatever, and here he comes

and he's like very depressed and very sad.

And I said, how can I help you?

And he says, you see these
pimples in my, in my skin?

And he showed me his skin and it really
looks terrible, like balls of water all

the time coming out of, of his arms.

And I said, have you seen the doctor?

I've seen everybody.

I've seen specialists, I've seen this.

There's this balls that never go away.

Anyway.

So I said I can't, usually I
can, I can grasp what it is that

the biology is trying to say.

For example, uh, liver
cancer will be anger.

Uh, uh, pancreas is also
anger, even more anger.

The head is overthinking, whatever.

There's always a reason, you know, but
with the arms, strangely enough, you

know, I, I just couldn't, just couldn't
see anything, couldn't get any, any idea.

I said, look, let us, uh, lie
you down and, and then see what I

received as guidance for you, because
I really need guidance this time.

And as I lie, the, the man down,
I touch his head, he falls asleep.

And the next thing I hear, which is
the soundtrack of my healing song, my

healing session, and the next thing.

I said to all the friends of this man, I
said, all the ancestors that are listening

here, please help me to, to help him
because I don't know what to tell him.

I don't know what to say
for him to, to recover.

And I see the ancestors, like
hundreds of them, you know, in a, yes.

A con circle shape.

Yeah.

On top and then on the bottom.

So two circles like this.

And they're all looking down at us,
and one of them shows me a gun, right?

And as it shows me a gun,
the whole image disappears.

And he wakes up.

He wakes up.

And then I said to him,

we didn't talk a lot, but we
have to talk about your gun.

And he was like, in shock.

He said, how do you know about my gun?

I said, the ancestors showed
me that you've got a gun.

Right.

They didn't tell me anything else.

Yeah.

You wanna tell me about your gun?

And he started to cry.

He really broke down.

He was so moved.

Of course, being a black person,
he believes in his ancestors,

but he was also a Christian.

So he was, he said to me the last
few months had been months of

anxiety because his wife had betrayed
him with, with his best friend.

So it was a double betrayal.

And he was considering shooting him?

Shooting himself, or shooting the gun?

No.

Shooting the guy who took his wife.

Yes.

Then he realized as a Christian,
he couldn't kill another person.

Yeah.

And, and he was in this,
you know, in a turmoil.

Yes.

And then of course this
resolved the problem for him.

The next day he phones me to say
those balls had disappeared as well.

That's insane.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Because you see your, your body
is so intelligently made that

everything is energy in the universe.

Right.

So it can be moved and manipulated and,
and so the body was just telling him no.

Like, no, you're not gonna do

this.

You know?

So he had to truly let go.

So even he had the idea that
he's not gonna kill his Yes.

His betrayer.

Yeah.

He had to, he hadn't, he
probably hadn't really let go.

Yeah.

You know, there was a part of him
that still really wanted to do it.

And I did say to him, do you

believe that we live forever as souls?

Oh, yes, I do.

Okay.

So, is it possible that some, in some
timeline, in some other life, you

could have done the same to the French?

You

know,

it's possible.

Yeah.

So he was like, oh, I guess
if I did it then it's fine.

You know, it's possible.

So that is why it is so important
for us to accept and swallow our

ego that whatever happens to us
may be somewhere along the line.

Sometimes is not the case of just
black and white karma happening.

Uh, some souls go through, uh, deep
experiences of pain because they,

their challenge is as they come here
is I'm gonna go down to the depths

of the darkest darkness and see if
I can come back again to the light.

The professor with the boils in his hand.

His arms on his arms, he had to forgive
or, or I guess he had to forgive his

ex-best friend, he and his wife as well.

Ex wife as well, in order to heal.

Yeah.

There are some people that are just
unable to let go of their anger.

Maybe it's self-righteousness.

Is it, in those cases, have you seen
people heal despite their anger?

Is it possible?

Mm, no.

No, because anger is the frozen
pain and for as long as it remains

unacknowledged, it's like the cause
of your disease, whatever disease

it is, mental, emotional, spiritual.

So for as long as it's not acknowledged
as the pain, and for as long as you

don't come out with that pain without.

That experience that created it in
the first place, experience dash s

experiences sometimes then, uh, you
know, you are back to square one.

It's like not moving, you know?

That

makes so much sense.

So now on to just practically, what
does it mean to forgive someone?

To forgive someone?

It

means to understand, one,
it was not made on purpose.

Nothing is made on purpose.

It looks like it's made
on purpose, but it's not.

Nobody hurts anybody by making a
plan, writing it down, creating

it, printing it, and then I'm
gonna, it doesn't work like that.

It's part of the script of the two
souls involved one way or the other.

And because we are here.

Most of us without a memory of what it is
that we may have done in other lifetimes.

We live with this comfortable ego
and we are better than others.

Yeah.

You see, because we don't
see our lives, right?

We don't see how many people
we have killed 2000 years ago.

We don't see how many we have strangled.

We don't, you know, we
don't see anything, right?

So we judge ourselves, uh, like
blind people because we only see

now, but we are eternal beings.

And if we have lived of all eternity,
we've got time to play all the roles.

This is all role playing.

This is what the Hindus teach
as Leila, the cosmic play,

the play of God at one time.

When we become aware of that's how it
works in this universe, because, you know.

We, we will buy a a, a phone
and we are going to read and

learn how it works, right?

But we don't learn and
read how life works.

Our soul takes embodiment
in this life, right?

So most people, planet are
not totally ignorant even of

the fact that they are a soul.

Some would say the instruction
manual is the scriptures

not enough.

No, but I also want you to know this.

When you practice and you are what
I call a true reverend adoring soul

of wanting to know the truth, you
know, you have to adore the truth.

You have to, to revere the truth, you
have to love the truth beyond love.

It has to become a thing
of adoration and reverence.

When you reach that point,
somehow the universe.

Communicates with you because now you have
reached a higher level of search, right?

And so they actually show you answers.

I, I have been shown some, some
things that are very intimate I

will not share here, obviously.

Uh, maybe when I'm a little bit
older than, than maybe I can just

write them down or something.

But I have, I have been shown things that
are so profound about my own evolution.

You know, I've seen myself,
uh, in a life in, in China, uh,

during the, the army of Genghis.

And I was a soldier.

I was a, a fighter.

I don't see myself killing anyone, but
I learned right then and then thank you,

because it opens to the possibility that
I may have killed quite a few people.

You know, if you are in the
army of Gengis Khan, right?

But they show me, uh, because I,
I've always had a thing with horses.

I touch horses and I start to cry.

Wow.

And then I was shown why when I
was a, a, a soldier in this army,

I had this magnificent, magnificent
Arabic white horse, you know,

the purest, pure, magnificent.

It was my pride and my reason for being,
and of course, I get caught by some

enemies and they, they, they actually
kill the horse before they kill me.

So I'm shown those, those visions
so that I can understand my

own, you know, my own evolution.

So I was a soldier there.

Uh, I have, I have seen myself in
other, uh, I was a, some sort of

healer also in India many times.

I was also in Europe in
the Middle Ages already.

I was one of the people that was
burnt at the stake, and I was

shown so that I could see what
happens during something like that.

You know, I was out of body in
no time and I was looking at the,

the scene from above, and some of
the people that had protected me,

they were going to burn as well.

And I'm screaming, you know,
and then I realized I don't

have a voice in this dimension.

I, they can't hear me because
I was screaming and said to

them, click off and come here.

You know, switch off much better here.

Yeah.

So when you become a truth seeker, uh,
and I mean, I cannot think of myself

in terms of, of the great, uh, riches
of India or any saint in Afghanistan,

mountains and all those, uh, Sufi
extraordinary evolved souls of, uh.

Those lands, you know, which again,
border, you know, it's always bordering

the India and I'm a liar, if you notice.

Yeah.

You know, there's this idea that, that
there are no past lives, but that because

there is no past presenting future.

Yes.

But that is,

that is not in this
dimension and this dimension.

We experience a
three-dimensional, uh, timeline.

We experience the bars,
the present, the future.

That's why we are born.

We live in and we die.

But in the ultimate, in the ultimate
reality, there is not indeed time.

But you know, even with the, um, I
don't know if you've heard of the

multiverse theory from physics,
but that there's multiple Yeah.

Universes.

Yeah.

And so there is a theory that
perhaps they're not past lives,

but perhaps they're parallel lives.

Yes, it is.

Or parallel dimensions.

That's, that would make more

sense.

Yeah.

But for most of us here on planet Earth.

We, we are bound by our senses.

So our senses inform us.

Yes, there is the, the past, there is the
present, and then there'll be the future.

But in the ultimate reality, there
is parallel, uh, uh, existence,

parallel tions and parallel creations.

And it makes perfect sense because,
you know, we, if we live forever,

you don't wanna come back to the
same thing over and over and over.

Yeah.

You, you would want, I
for one, I already asked.

For example, I was told in dreams
as a response to my, uh, query.

Where, where do I come from?

Because I, I feel alienated.

Yes.

A little bit from this planet.

I, I think that I felt
since I was a little child.

I remember in Paradise Islands, in
Mozambique where I grew up, uh, I

remember having my little island, like
all the other children were playing

these little islands, which were little
pieces of land sticking out in the ocean.

I remember crying, please
send a ship for me.

Oh, this is no left me in the wrong place.

And I remember this very clearly because
it was something that had not died

within my, uh, higher consciousness
that I was not in my planet.

And, uh, when I finally turned 65, about
six years ago or so, five years ago or

whatever, I had the dream when I was
told that I was indeed from the pladis.

So if I am indeed from the PLAs,
a part of me is still there.

Part of me is here.

Part of me is probably
in the spirit world.

So we are all multidimensional beings,
but we don't get that awareness

until we are searching or somewhere
a little bit further already along

our search of who we truly are.

Because if we are pure energy, as
quantum physics is teaching us.

Then we are not bound anywhere.

You can't bound energy anywhere, you
know, unless you, you put a, a pipe

on it or a tube on it or whatever, or
transform a trans transducer, whatever.

And so our bodies work as those
capturing things to have a part of

us yet, but that's not who we are.

You not your body only

the soul is free.

Free.

And actually there's, um, uh, in Islam
at least we believe that when we sleep

and dream our souls are traveling.

Correct?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That it's,

uh, and that is why when you've got
lucid dreams and you are given answers

to your deepest, uh, sought after
questions like, where do I come from?

When I learned I come from the
play is I was so happy, you know?

Oh, at least I know.

Okay.

I belonging the seven sisters.

Yeah.

Then you, you try to look for
other people from the ple?

Yes, they plenty on the internet.

Oh, they are?

Okay.

Oh, unless you make new friends.

No, not really.

But, uh, I've, I've met people
here too that, uh, that,

that are okay.

They feel that you feel
a special connection?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Lou just going, you know, this, this thing
about forgiveness has really, I wanna know

more about it just because I think that
I, I've, I've been through my own stuff

when I actually first asked you to do the
interview and I was thinking about the

topic and forgiveness did come up for me.

'cause I was struggling with
my own journey on forgiving

people, forgiving myself.

I think I've come a long way between
us scheduling the interview and

now I've come a long, long way.

Shows on your face.

Yeah.

So is this what I was struggling
with, and I know that a lot of

people struggle with, is that.

When you are, let's say now, just
practically, I asked you, what

does it mean to forgive someone?

So now let's say somebody has
wronged me and I've forgiven them.

Yet, every time I meet this person, I feel
something, I feel something in my heart.

I feel like I don't wanna
talk to this person anymore.

Does that mean you've forgiven them?

Yes and no.

Yeah.

Uh, through forgiveness,
you, you become indifferent.

It doesn't affect you as much, but
when you express the desire to forgive

somebody, and you are able to still
talk with them, it's already a progress.

But the point comes where it's just
like, it's gone back to nothingness.

It makes no difference,

but you'll never trust the person again.

Well, if it depends.

If it was something to trust, if
it was an issue of serious trust.

Yes, you must also learn the

lesson.

Lou, I wanna ask you
about self-forgiveness.

How do we forgive ourselves and what
does it mean to forgive ourselves?

Well, forgiving

yourself is understanding, and that goes
for guilt as well, is understanding that

you couldn't have done better

then with what you know now.

So it is very important to just say
to yourself, I didn't know better.

I didn't know to control my impulses.

I, I did know to control my jealousy.

Whatever it was that made
you hurt as, as somebody.

So I very often have in those moments
that I need to forgive myself.

I say I invoke the law of forgiveness
for my ignorance on the issue.

It is not a easy subject and I'm not like
the master of forgiveness by very far.

You, you understand?

So we just invoke that law of forgiveness
and, and I, I always say I invoke the

law of forgiveness for myself, for all
that I may have hurt and for all that

will hurt me and even into the future.

Otherwise, there is no peace.

You, you can have no peace.

Does it mean like you just forget
about it, accept it, and move on?

Well, you, you voice it.

You say, I invoke the law of forgiveness
because I need to, to let go of this.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I, I find that your
thoughts can be involuntary.

Yeah.

Right.

They just come and what's the mantra?

You have no power.

Yeah.

Or pass the test

I wanna talk to you about something.

You've authored so many books and
in all of them you said they were

written through you and not by you.

Just like my healing Exactly.

How, how did this happen?

So can you give us an example of what
happened even in your first book?

How did it start?

My first book is, is uh,
is the very beginning.

I never, I tell this to people, I'm
now on the sixth and I never, ever

in my entire life thought I would
write any book first, because I

speak a few languages, as you know.

And I always thought that my English was
far below par to write anything coherent.

So that's how I thought.

And then 25 years ago, 26 years
ago, I was meditating and I hear

these voices in my head and it is so
beautiful, but I mean, so beautiful.

And I just start writing it down.

And I wrote it and I wrote it, and
I wrote it, and then I typed it.

It was in English?

Yes.

I typed it.

I loved it so much.

I actually made a, a whole
pile of copies of it.

It was not much like
four pages or something.

Then I had a patient,
uh, Carol, god bless her.

She came, she said, oh,
this is so beautiful.

You must write a book.

I said, I can't write a book
or three pages, or four pages,

or whatever the case was.

She said, but where does this come
from, Lulu, where does this come from?

I said, I dunno.

I heard these voices and it
filled my heart and I got so

emotional, started writing.

She said, well, going to get space
and, and ask them to send you more.

That's how it started.

Wow.

And you wrote in English.

That's quite interesting.

Yes.

And also what is, uh, very interesting
is that afterwards I started

getting dreams about my books.

And in the dreams I would get the title.

Then I would wake up three o'clock in
the morning and write Before I forget,

uh, I used to go to bed with a book
all by my side, and I write everything.

I remember from the dream, and
then I would think about it.

And I remember when I had to
write, we are here to learn.

Oh my God, I had an attack of giggles.

I said, you must be joking with me,
me telling anyone about the lessons.

And I laughed and I laughed all by
myself, like a mental case, you know?

And then slowly, slowly, I,
I was receiving information

more and more and more.

I would open synchronistically, I would
open a book and I would see a beautiful

piece, and I would save it for the book.

And the moment I went to write the book
in three days, the book was written.

Wow.

So I knew it can't be me.

Yes.

It can't be me, you know?

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, uh, and I remember, uh, for we Are
Here to Learn, I sat one day for 18 hours

writing, and at the end of the day, I,
I could hardly get out of the jail saw.

Even though I was only in
my, what, 40 something.

I remember hearing the voice to pick
up a book of this little hotel where

I was little, not Hotel, the Cottage.

And I, I picked up the book and
it was comedy book and I laughed.

I laughed for another hour or
so before I went to bed, but I

was in such a heightened state.

I was seeing people from the other side.

That's

amazing.

Yeah.

And what was that like?

I wonder, I wonder what it was
like for your daughter Karina

to experience you like that?

I ask her, she's gonna say to, it was
not easy because, um, and I feel sorry

for her in many ways because if I have
to be fair, I was an absent mother.

I was out of body most of my life.

And when it was difficult
to cope, I was out of body.

So I wasn't.

I was a hands, uh, uh, hands on,
hands-on mom, but I wasn't there.

Does it make sense?

Yes.

You know, when you are out of body,
you are not, you're not there.

I guess Karina chose you for a reason.

Yes, she did.

Uh, and, uh, I said to her also, she
had to understand that I came from a

background of severe trauma with my
own mother, and that's how I coped

you.

Do

you think

that anyone can be a channel?

Yes.

Could you tell us how?

I think

it is not for us to decide, actually.

Okay.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

I, I, I never asked to be a channel.

I think that when you have a pure heart,
because remember, the universe is not

registering how pretty you are, how
good, what you are doing or whatever.

But is registering our intention.

And, and if there is souls of
higher dimensional level up there

that help us, invite us and channel
through us, they're actually

looking at those intentions, right?

So my intention for as long as I
remember to be alive was to help people.

And I remember in my prayer, my
first prayer that I ever wrote was,

dear God, make me an instrument
of your love and your healing

for all those that I encounter.

And it was a very simple, a simple
way because if I see somebody in

distress, I would comfort them.

If I see somebody cry, I would hold them.

If I would see somebody sick,
I'll put my hands on them.

If I see somebody in pain, I remember
he gonna love, love this one.

I was traveling, uh, with a friends
a couple of years back and I

saw this young black man with a.

With the dresses, you
know, the, the dreadlocks.

The dreadlocks, beautiful young man.

And he was walking with
a thing and I saw the,

the pain

patch there, right?

And I thought, wow, he must
be in real pain to have the

pain patch

and the pen patch there.

Anyway, here he is, I, we enter in
the plane and we all get our seats

and he's just two lots behind me.

I am on the this side and he's on
the middle of the plane and come

midnight or something like that.

He's in such pain.

He is trying to sleep and he is, oh,
and everyone in the plane is looking.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I called the lady, the air hostess,
air host, and I said, if you want this.

Stop because everyone is
complaining they wanna sleep.

Please ask him permission, say
to him, I could give him healing

and put him to sleep for real.

And she looks at me.

Oh, wide eye.

Yeah.

She said, can you do that?

I said, I, I hope so, you know?

Yeah.

Then she said, okay, uh, let's do that.

You know, I'm gonna ask him.

So he said, yes, please, please, please.

I'm something.

So I think he's morphine patch
that's said, find finally home.

I dunno, he probably left the
morphine patch somewhere else.

The recharges, you know.

So I said to him, okay, lie down, because
it was a place for him to lie down on, you

know, on the, where there's the four seat.

And I, I touch his head
and before long he was,

and afterwards, this woman
wouldn't leave me alone.

And I said, no, please.

I also want to sleep.

She said, no, but tell us, tell us more.

And I said, no, you know, I can't explain.

I said to her, I can't explain.

It's just a gift.

Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Lou, this has been so fantastic.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing your insights.

Thank your view on politics.

Yeah.

And the

world.

I feel very sad for what's happening
just like everybody else, but

I'm able to withdraw, you know?

But I, I still feel very deeply
a great sadness for Palestine and

especially I know they history well.

I feel, I feel the same for any unjust.

And you've seen so much in

your, in your career as well, right?

As a healer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But we, we pray all we can do is to pray.

And, and,

uh, I'm curious, Lou, how
do you carry all the pain?

What do you do with it?

Uh, well, I ask the universe to clean me.

I just say,

what is it?

Cleanse and purify.

Sometimes I have pain in my heart.

It real pain.

Yeah.

And I remember when I had that phase
of, uh, severe physical trauma, I

used to have pain in the parts of
the biology that I used to heal.

To heal.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and but that is also part of the gift.

You know, if, if I, if I see
somebody with pain, they don't even

have to tell me where the pain is.

I pick it up in my own
biology on the exact spot.

So actually very open
as in a energy channel.

But you're actually very open because
you can take on the energy of the

people you're healing as well as
the energy of the divine that Yeah.

Yeah.

Flows through.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's, they say it's
the price of the gift.

Yes.

The flip side of the same.

Yes.

It's the price of the gift.

Because for you to be able to

help somebody, you have to feel
a little bit of what they feel.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

But also to be open to
other energy, I guess.

You're also then open to the pe.

Yeah.

The energy of people that
you come into contact.

Even though, you know, I've asked

over the years, I've asked them
to preserve me more because

my heart would go into sink.

Would he heart that was sick and
that was not good for my heart?

Right.

If somebody had, I don't know, a
heart atrial fibrillation, yes.

I would feel exactly the same in my heart.

My heart would go in resonance,
so I end up establishing that

resonance with the person.

And I understand that
is obviously part of.

Uh, the gift is to be able to be in
resonance, in total resonance with

a person, because then, uh, I think
temporarily for, for fractions of a

second, maybe I carry their load a
little bit, giving them the memory of

what it's like not to have the pain.

It's amazing, but I have been
instructed to adjust over the years.

For example, now I am not allowed
to put anyone to sleep anymore,

so people cannot lie down.

I can't lie down.

Yes.

Why is that?

Because they told me that by allowing
the people to go and unconscious,

I also become unconscious and they
don't want me to become unconscious.

That's so interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, Lou, I mean, thank you for
the work that you're doing.

This is really so insightful.

I'm sure a lot of people want to know.

Yeah.

I wanna hear from someone like
yourself because I think that

there's a lot of people that have
heard of people like you Yeah.

But have never experienced or spoken to.

And

yet we are so many, I believe
that there is more than 15% of the

world's population that is able to
channel the energy to another person.

Really?

Yeah.

Do

you

think that there's a lot of people
that don't know they have the gift?

I think so, but also I think that
a lot have have the gift, but they

have not any desire to go and use it.

Why would they be given the
gift without the desire?

Because you know, when you arrive
in this dimension, you forget

even why you are here.

Right.

That's what it is saying.

They haven't found themselves yet.

Yeah.

Fascinating.

Thanks so much.

Pleasure.

Thanks for listening today.

I hope you found today's episode
insightful and inspiring.

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Uh.